Some concerns with Panzerfuseliers.

Pfussies also get passive sprint and better RA than Penal Battalions, on top of everything else.

They do.
They also come later, are doctrinal, get those bonuses you mentioned above vet 3 and have higher XP value.

When it comes to DPS and DPS vet bonuses I don't really see how they are more OP when compared to Penals, since Penal will probably achieve vet 3 faster and will be more power at vet 3 than PF.

If one reads my previous post one will see that imo compared to grenadiers (the benchmark) this unis is OP.

Once more imo has to first set the level and balance the stock units that are available before minute and then fine tune doctrinal units.

Easy fixes like pop, sight and permanent sprint can be implement regardless.

When it comes to DPS and DPS vet bonuses I don't really see how they are more OP when compared to Penals, since Penal will probably achieve vet 3 faster and will be more power at vet 3 than PF.

Because DPS is not the stat to rule them all. Performance of units is relative to faction and cost opportunity. For ex: if any faction other than USF had Paratroopers, i bet we would see them more frequently. Same with the commander/tier they are part from.

The problem i see with Penals is the fact that you ONLY get penals instead of a mix bag with conscripts. One could play with vet requirements for sure, but if more, why would i even bother going T1. And if that would be the case, why i would even play SU at that point (unless other changes are done).

If one reads my previous post one will see that imo compared to grenadiers (the benchmark) this unis is OP.
Once more imo has to first set the level and balance the stock units that are available before minute and then fine tune doctrinal units.

Mainline infantry should be comparable not equal.

For instance Riflemen where designed as infantry that is OP because their support weapons where UP. Since the latest patches tented to improve the cost efficiency of USF support weapons Riflemen need to become a bit less OP.

Answering both quotes.

Grenadiers are not isolated unit. They are replaced by Prosttruppen (haha Assault Grens) or combined with Pio/MG42/Sniper/Mortar.

Going back to USF, you can't field support weapons at the same time. By the time you can hit a .50 cal, you are barely ahead of a fast T2 timing. Early on you work with RE/Rifles/Mortar (which was rightfully nerfed). If you are hipster enough, Dodge/AssEngi/Path. When you have to hit Rifles with the nerf hammer, i'll rather it be BARs to make them to be more ARs performance wise -close/mid range-. (this would hit other ARs long performance as well). PD: power also comes from freebies.

I'll say both UK/OKW main line infantry are not an issue early on as much as when you hit critical mass with vet/upgrades.

SU is stack with an old outdated model of upgrades for Conscripts (still shit performance unless mass PPSH). For the early game, you are either stack with Conscripts with upgrades, going T1 or getting T2. You can hit Penals in a different way rather than sheer performance. Field presence early on (build time) and/or the call ins which makes transition to mid game good (this is another can of worms).

Easy fixes like pop, sight and permanent sprint can be implement regardless.

At the end of the day, this is all that should be done if there was any patch in the horizon. You could argue there is some place for weapon slots but as you say, other things are fine tuning.

Because DPS is not the stat to rule them all. Performance of units is relative to faction and cost opportunity. For ex: if any faction other than USF had Paratroopers, i bet we would see them more frequently. Same with the commander/tier they are part from.

The problem i see with Penals is the fact that you ONLY get penals instead of a mix bag with conscripts. One could play with vet requirements for sure, but if more, why would i even bother going T1. And if that would be the case, why i would even play SU at that point (unless other changes are done).

I never argued that DPS is that "rules", I am simply saying that if PF vet DPS bonuses need a nerf so does Penals.

And half the issues mentioned in OP apply to Penals also.

And since you brought faction design giving Soviet's a "Riflemen" equivalent in Penals make little sense because of they completely different faction design.

Imo the fact that faction showdown Soviet played penal only and won all games is strong indication that the unit is OP. Are PF OP? imo yes simply because their performance is close to Penal's performance (who are a bigger issue atm).

If you want talk about Soviet design imo Soviet infantry should be split to defensive infantry (conscripts) and cheap offensive infantry Penals.

Pfussies also get passive sprint and better RA than Penal Battalions, on top of everything else.

They also have 5 star vet which inherently should be better (1.5x according to relic) than their allied counterparts

The vet 5 shit went out the window when relic decided to give okw full income and and give them everything they ever lacked. medium tank, incendiary nades and snares on volks, buffed volks in general, gave them brain dead upgrade that increases their dps at all ranges, 6 min luchs, kubel redisign etc, etc.

Vet 5 shouldnt exist anymore made sense then when okw lacked at some areas and had a weak early game/early mid dosent now they excel at all areas and lack nothing so they should not get vet 5 period. Why do they get rewarded for simply keeping their infantry alive when other factions hit brick walls at vet 3.

Now this vet5 shit added to a high model, low pop, relatively cheap and spamable durable good dps infantry unit, that even gets a snare to help counter vehicles.

The vet 5 shit went out the window when relic decided to give okw full income and and give them everything they ever lacked. medium tank, incendiary nades and snares on volks, buffed volks in general, gave them brain dead upgrade that increases their dps at all ranges, 6 min luchs, kubel redisign etc, etc.

Vet 5 shouldnt exist anymore made sense then when okw lacked at some areas and had a weak early game/early mid dosent now they excel at all areas and lack nothing so they should not get vet 5 period. Why do they get rewarded for simply keeping their infantry alive when other factions hit brick walls at vet 3.

Now this vet5 shit added to a high model, low pop, relatively cheap and spamable durable good dps infantry unit, that even gets a snare to help counter vehicles.

Ffs for all this time OKW could build caches and I left cut offs free because I didn't know it...

The vet 5 shit went out the window when relic decided to give okw full income and and give them everything they ever lacked. medium tank, incendiary nades and snares on volks, buffed volks in general, gave them brain dead upgrade that increases their dps at all ranges, 6 min luchs, kubel redisign etc, etc.

They also decided to increase the fuel cost of all their vehicles to compensate. And made them pay for trucks, medics and repairs. Also they've nerfed volks in general, their vet bonuses have steadily gone down over time.

And BTW most weapon upgrades increase their dps at all ranges, the STG isn't unique in this regard. And it does not increase the long range dps.

Now this vet5 shit added to a high model, low pop, relatively cheap and spamable durable good dps infantry unit, that even gets a snare to help counter vehicles.

It's almost like they are a worse version of Penal Battalions!

Just increase pop cap to 8 and GW43 upgrade takes all weapon slots.

Fixed.

Just increase pop cap to 8 and GW43 upgrade takes all weapon slots.

Fixed.

Most certainly not. The 25mp p/model and the absurdly high chance at wipes on retreating squads aren't addressed that way.

Ffs for all this time OKW could build caches and I left cut offs free because I didn't know it...

Ya know, I would trade caches for gaining literally everything else.

Ya know, I would trade caches for gaining literally everything else.

You mean the vet4-5 you will never reach with 90% of your units?
DEAL.

Problem is that non upgraded PF unit is just a Volk squad with 6th member and meh utilities. And different vet.

Penals/Rifle/IS will eat for breakfast stock PF unit.

Problem is that non upgraded PF unit is just a Volk squad with 6th member and meh utilities. And different vet.

Penals/Rifle/IS will eat for breakfast stock PF unit.

The unit should be rebalanced towards gaining an earlier, or even min 0 timing, decent vet 0 stats but give up some late game scalability and dps and cost more to reinforce.

Invissed one off-topic post.