Squad-ai, Yes or No.

What do you chaps think about squad-AI?

Do you think it makes the experience better, watching your men execute moves and use combat-tactics that make it feel like they actually have training, or is it a buggy, annoying mess that isn't worth the hassle.

Squad-AI has been removed from COH2, even in the campaign. So to compare it requires watching a engagement in COH1, then going to COH2. Just give two infantry units of opposing sides a attack-move order, and notice the difference.

Post a comment below detailing what you think are the pro's and con's of the system/mechanic!

Yeah they kinda look like robots now, even more robotic in DoW 3.

What people loved about CoH was it's infantry's dynamic movement, while a hassle at times, it was cool to watch your guys actually seek cover for themselves and go into different postures while aiming.

As well as squad feedback.

Like "CONTACT, KRAUTS!" or "WE HAVE AMIS HERE!" you know.

It looks good, but is one of the worst mechanical components of vCoh. Having one of your squad members bolt around the sandbags to the wrong side or having them randomly scatter is just a huge pain.

It looks good, but is one of the worst mechanical components of vCoh. Having one of your squad members bolt around the sandbags to the wrong side or having them randomly scatter is just a huge pain.

That has been fixed in COH2. In a interview before release one of the devs mentioned that they fixed that, though I forgot what video that was. Only trenches have that issue as they aren't set as directional cover.

Some campaign missions, like mission one, had this to a degree but with a unit like shocks where if they are dancing around the are not firing especially at the very lethal for both close range is problematic. For long range, engagements this could be good but not a close range where you should have maximum control.

It's always nice to see, I would like units to behave like that if they start fighting in red cover or in the open, but once you give the order to move behind cover or something similar, they better stay glue to that damm place like in COH2.

A toggle would be great. People who like the automated cover seeking can have it, and people who hate losing control don't have to deal with it.

To be honest, I wish the game had a toggle like in some Total War games where you can automate some units entirely. Probably not for automatch - maybe just custom games. But I think many people would have fun microing only a tank or two while the AI controls the rest of your forces. Not for competitive PVP - custom games only.

If anybody has any idea how to fix squad-ai (while avoiding gratuitous dancing) let me know, and we can work this out.

Currently, I've no idea how this part of the game functions at all. But yeah, the current lack of movement from squads makes those early game engagements look super-boring for rifle-wielding squads.

EDIT:

CoH1 AI was annoying at times when you wanted to place your squads behind sandbags; they would just spread out and hop around, making cover impossible to use.

CoH2 had some pretty atrocious squad AI back when, every time you would select a target, the squad would perform a little dance. This made guards/captain completely useless as AT platforms.

The ideal solution would be something that makes individual squad members dance while the squad is moving (e.g., how bar riflemen in CoH1 would jump like wildcats for cover while the squad is moving).

Jump back to quoted post6 Aug 2017, 10:11 AMMr.Smith

If anybody has any idea how to fix squad-ai (while avoiding gratuitous dancing) let me know, and we can work this out.

Currently, I've no idea how this part of the game functions at all. But yeah, the current lack of movement from squads makes those early game engagements look super-boring for rifle-wielding squads.

EDIT:

CoH1 AI was annoying at times when you wanted to place your squads behind sandbags; they would just spread out and hop around, making cover impossible to use.

CoH2 had some pretty atrocious squad AI back when, every time you would select a target, the squad would perform a little dance. This made guards/captain completely useless as AT platforms.

The ideal solution would be something that makes individual squad members dance while the squad is moving (e.g., how bar riflemen in CoH1 would jump like wildcats for cover while the squad is moving).

For your first query, squad-ai is controlled by the squad-ai files in the Data folder (you can use archive viewer to browse). Most of the AI files in there are mostly blank, with a few exceptions. The ones that have more text are more advanced per-say.

2. That has been fixed in COH2. They don't spread out and hop around if there isn't any good cover around. If there is, say a abandoned truck right next to the sandbags, some of them might get behind that, as they prefer to spread out.

3. That has also been fixed (for the most part). If you refer to my other post, it seems to be something to do with weapon cooldown. Once the unit is out of cooldown and fires, the dancing stops.

4. I think that is mainly to do with squad formations. In COH1, the bar was a slot-item that was tagged as a support weapon. Thus bars would usually stay on the flanks and would have a higher drift cap than riflemen.

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For your first query, squad-ai is controlled by the squad-ai files in the Data folder (you can use archive viewer to browse). Most of the AI files in there are mostly blank, with a few exceptions. The ones that have more text are more advanced per-say.

2. That has been fixed in COH2. They don't spread out and hop around if there isn't any good cover around. If there is, say a abandoned truck right next to the sandbags, some of them might get behind that, as they prefer to spread out.

3. That has also been fixed (for the most part). If you refer to my other post, it seems to be something to do with weapon cooldown. Once the unit is out of cooldown and fires, the dancing stops.

4. I think that is mainly to do with squad formations. In COH1, the bar was a slot-item that was tagged as a support weapon. Thus bars would usually stay on the flanks and would have a higher drift cap than riflemen.

I'll need some help to figure all of these out. Would you be up for it?

I also found some interesting move_types under tuning. Most move types have leapfrogging disabled, which is why squads move robotically across the map.

However, does anybody know how to trigger a "user_control_move_type"? That's the only movement type that doesn't have leapfrogging disabled, and I would like to see how it feels.

(tuning and move_types are unmoddable).

I'll need some help to figure all of these out. Would you be up for it?

I also found some interesting move_types under tuning. Most move types have leapfrogging disabled, which is why squads move robotically across the map.

However, does anybody know how to trigger a "user_control_move_type"? That's the only movement type that doesn't have leapfrogging disabled, and I would like to see how it feels.

(tuning and move_types are unmoddable).

To apply a move type, make a ability with override_move_type or something like that, set the move type to user control and priority to 100 (btw, the user_control move type is a left-over from ToV).

Having tried Lugie's mod (and in the process of porting his squad-ai to the Revamp mod), I'd have to say two things:

1. Holy molly, it looks and feels amazing
2. This automated looking-for-cover over time is actually the one missing ingredient for squad spacing in cover.

#1 should be obvious to anybody that has played CoH1. Unlike CoH1, the logic has expanded so that units understand directional cover. Therefore, they really stay glued next to cover, if you put them there, and they relocate to nearby cover if they aren't already there.

#2 is a bit less obvious. If there's anything that the game has taught you is to avoid directional yellow cover like the plague.

Consider the isolated trees parts in Crossing in the Wood (or Lienne Forest). You encounter an enemy squad, and you have 2 options:
- Either select a tree, and have all 5-6 squad members hug around it like hippies. This means a stray mortar shell or a rifle nade will mean a dead 6-man squad
- Or stay out in the open, and get shredded

This problem is, basically, non-existent when you have squad-AI. You just right click at the enemy, and the squad members will pick a random piece of cover nearby. This allows the squad to both benefit from cover, and be somewhat spread.

It's the same thing with fences, sandbags etc.

PS: Here's Lugie's mod, where squad AI has been reintroduced: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937724731&searchtext=i.a.c.

Play as ostheer and try out the Ostruppen-portrait squad (called Frei-something).

Having tried Lugie's mod (and in the process of porting his squad-ai to the Revamp mod), I'd have to say two things:

1. Holy molly, it looks and feels amazing
2. This automated looking-for-cover over time is actually the one missing ingredient for squad spacing in cover.

#1 should be obvious to anybody that has played CoH1. Unlike CoH1, the logic has expanded so that units understand directional cover. Therefore, they really stay glued next to cover, if you put them there, and they relocate to nearby cover if they aren't already there.

#2 is a bit less obvious. If there's anything that the game has taught you is to avoid directional yellow cover like the plague.

Consider the isolated trees parts in Crossing in the Wood (or Lienne Forest). You encounter an enemy squad, and you have 2 options:
- Either select a tree, and have all 5-6 squad members hug around it like hippies. This means a stray mortar shell or a rifle nade will mean a dead 6-man squad
- Or stay out in the open, and get shredded

This problem is, basically, non-existent when you have squad-AI. You just right click at the enemy, and the squad members will pick a random piece of cover nearby. This allows the squad to both benefit from cover, and be somewhat spread.

It's the same thing with fences, sandbags etc.

PS: Here's Lugie's mod, where squad AI has been reintroduced: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=937724731&searchtext=i.a.c.

Play as ostheer and try out the Ostruppen-portrait squad (called Frei-something).

Hype

...
1. Holy molly, it looks and feels amazing
...

**GivPlz emote here**

Any chance the squad AI could be integrated in the FBP as a QoL?

Its a yes from me.

I really miss watching the troops running and diving for cover when getting attacked in vCOH. I also miss the medic stations from vCOH. Massive battles going on with death and destruction everywhere and out of know where a medic runs in to the battle picks up a injured soldier off the floor and gets him out of there.

It was the little details like this that made vCOH feel so alive.

This has been one of coh2 biggest shortcomings for a long time and has contributed to a great deal of the problems and attempted fixes with game balance.

Respect to you Lugie for figuring this out. I spent months back in 2015 trying to make sense of it and ultimately gave up. I'd given into it being hardcoded out of our control.

This has been one of coh2 biggest shortcomings for a long time and has contributed to a great deal of the problems and attempted fixes with game balance.

Respect to you Lugie for figuring this out. I spent months back in 2015 trying to make sense of it and ultimately gave up. I'd given into it being hardcoded out of our control.

Thanks mate.

Units running uncontrolled for cover is one of the most cancerous things we finally got rid of. We don't need that back.

A more interesting topic is the abnormal slow turning speed of units...

Units running uncontrolled for cover is one of the most cancerous things we finally got rid of. We don't need that back.

A more interesting topic is the abnormal slow turning speed of units...

Could you please elaborate on why you think its a no?

Could you please elaborate on why you think its a no?

The best example are squads with AT weapons. Assume a tank is cruising around the edge of their AT range and you want them to engage the tank. However, since your units will first run for cover (even in the opposite direction of the tank) the tank will have time to get out and you squad will never fire a shot. It's the same problem we had with the Captain against tanks.

CQB units are very similiar, you want them to deliver their full firepower as soon as possible before the enemy pulls out. That hardly works with your Shocks running for cover first. These units are specifically not made for cover mechanics, they are the counter to units in cover.

The general problem is how the automatic seeking cover mechanic causes very frustrating delays or even setbacks such as running back or away from the enemy.

I want my units to do exactly what they are told to do. When I tell them to attack a specific unit, I don't want them to run around and seek cover, I want them to attack this specific unit right now because of a specific reason. (for example when my long range units are being approached by cqb units. Then I want those cqb units dead as soon as possible before they reach the point where they dominate my troops instead.)