Unofficial Revamp mod (EFA & WFA & Brits)

"the layer of rules" you are referring to is already in the mod:


Conscripts:
Slot items
- Receive accuracy penalty of -43%
- This affects all slot items, including PPSH and PTRS

Ostruppen:
- Receive a permanent -50% penalty on all picked up items
- Accuracy bonus only applies to default rifles

Yeah, and now you still have to rinse and repeat that for every unit and every weapon combination. It'll result in balance hell and impossibly for gamers to find out what weapon drops is best on their, let's suppose, unit z with weapon drop k,l or m against unit k.

That something is already in the game does not mean that it's good to expand on it. Or are you unhappy that I said 'add' layer instead of 'expanding' layer?

The Bren Gun should be left alone, honestly. It's great as it is. I can equip one at maximum and have an extra slot for picking up spare weapons. Plus equipping only one was something I did often even before this mod so I like the improved Bren as a result.

The weapon was designed to have a slow rate of fire in order to be more accurate so it's a great weapon for Infantry Sections in the Trenches. Lowering their accuracy at long range would destroy it's ability to be a defensive weapon. Infantry Sections simply are not suited for moving in closer to the enemy, due to their moving accuracy and shouldn't be forced to operate in that manner just to make their "Upgrade" useful. I also don't want to see them get fired on the move since that is a unique trait for the Commandos only. Need a more mobile LMG platform? Get an upgraded Universal Carrier and you have it. Please, no BAR-like Bren Guns!

The current Tommies play is rather boring. You can just leave them in cover/garrison on a sector and they can beat 1vs1 most enemy infantries that try to attack them, forcing to use more than 1 infantry to dislodge in which case they simply retreat.

Imo by changing the bren one could makes Tommies play allot more interesting. The balance could look abit like this:
Grenadiers vs Tommies (4)
Tommies (equal cover) advantage long range slight, disadvantage close range
Tommies (no cover) disadvantage

LMG Grenadiers vs Tommies (5)
Tommies (equal cover) slight advantage long range
Tommies (no cover) disadvantage

g43 Grenadier vs Tommies (5) bren
Tommies (equal cover) slight disadvantage long range, slight advantage mid range

g43 Grenadier vs Tommies (5) 2 bren
Tommies (equal cover) disadvantage long range, advantage mid range

The idea is the exact opposite of what you describe. Tommies are forced to move to make the bren upgrade useful, it is the bren upgrade that gives the player the option to use Tommies as more as a static unit if he chooses to.

In addition A moving a blod is limited by the fact that their DPS is lowered and they also have to move to cover to reach full potential DPS.

As for the Vickers K, I tried it with the changes and I wasn't impressed. The Vickers K was made as Britain's answer to the LMG42. You wouldn't know that by looking at it in game right now. If it really had to be redesigned, I would make it more like the MG42. It's fast firing rate (Comparable to MG42 in real life) would mean great short range, decent mid range and terrible long range DPS.

The Vickers K was actually developed for airplanes and for land was mostly used on the jeeps of desert rats. In real life it did not fire faster than MG42. As most mgs they are not very good at close range due to size and weight.

We should think of it as a LMG made for the Offense. Non-Doctrine Heavy Sappers get this LMG but they also have Sten Guns that are only good at short range so maybe it was intended for offense? Make the Vickers K suited for close range combat and that will be it's distinct purpose. Could merely just need a drop in long range accuracy and a longer burst at short range.

Heavy sapper can hardy be used offensively due to speed penalties. In game lmg have a distinctive weapon dps curve and totally reversing it in case of Vickers-K make little sense.

The balance that MrSmith is attempting to achieve in the mod is way better than what you propose. The early game for ukf is really fluent and most fun in the mod. We haven't had the chance to try the new mortars. There's no need at all for a complete remake of early game.

Do you want to play the mod sometime? Your experience seem to heavily rely on the live version..

Yeah, and now you still have to rinse and repeat that for every unit and every weapon combination. It'll result in balance hell and impossibly for gamers to recall what weapon drops is best on their, let's suppose, pathfinder units.

That something is already in the game does not mean that it's good to expand on it. Or are you unhappy that I said 'add' layer instead of 'expanding' layer?

Its all simpler that you describe and is already in live game since elite troops pick a different version of lmgs in most cases.

It can be as simple as this: all dropped weapons picked by lower quality troops have -20-30% DPS, all weapon picked by elite infantry have +20-30% DPS.

Without these changes the ability of UKF HT to drop weapons will create issues in team-games as mentioned by other (the dual lmg Penal that can beat LMG obers)

[...] At this point, I give up; give us your changes (if any) for the forementioned units as a starting point, and we can talk.

If it is that simple, why don't you go through every unit and every weapon, put every unit/weapon in their respective classes and weapon combinations and describe the numbers for us as MrSmith kindly requested a while back?

[...] Lower quality troops have -20-30% DPS, all weapon picked by elite infantry have +20-30% DPS.

The idea isn't that great, as it'll just force players to get the biggest, most expensive, best bonus, and most elite units to win. Giving even more bonus to elite will just result in messy and boring DoW3-gameplay all over again.

If dropped weapons using one commander was really a problem, there'd be more threads about it.

If it is that simple, why don't you go through every unit and every weapon, put every unit/weapon in their respective classes and weapon combinations and describe the numbers for us as MrSmith kindly requested a while back?



The idea isn't that great though, as it'll just force players to get the biggest, most expensive, best bonus, and most elite units to win. Giving even more bonus to elite will just result in messy and boring DoW3-gameplay all over again.

If dropped weapons using one commander was really a problem, there'd be more threads about it.

As I have explained (and regardless of how you feel about the idea) it has been implement in the game from its start and it has been expanded in this mod and it certainly has not lead to "DOW3-gameplay". In other words both Relic and Moders find this a good idea.

The main reason for the implementation is to stop poor quality troops like osstruppen perform better than elite troops once they pick dropable weapons, while picking certain weapon with elite troops being more like a downgrade than an upgrade.

Since this is a thread about giving feeadback to moders (and not personal debates) I will try explain this more once more and then stop responding to your personal comments.

I am actually giving the modders what the asked for feedback. Parts of the feedback I have provided have made it to both this MOD and in the Live game so I don't really feel any need for your advice on how to help the game become better (especially since I have not seen any suggestion coming from you). On the the other hand maybe you should follow your own advice and try to provide useful feedback for the moders instead of fixating on what at do. I probably have nothing more to say to you and little interest in what you have to say to me, so have a nice day.

(P.S. if for any bizarre reason you find this post offensive feel free to report it, it would come as a surprise since once you got offended because I wished "marry Christmas")

Parts of the feedback I have provided have made it to both this MOD and in the Live game so I don't really feel any need for your advice on how to help the game become better (especially since I have not seen any suggestion coming from you). On the the other hand maybe you should follow your own advice and try to provide useful feedback for the moders instead of fixating on what at do. I probably have nothing more to say to you and little interest in what you have to say to me, so have a nice day.

(P.S. if for any bizarre reason you find this post offensive feel free to report it, it would come as a surprise since once you got offended because I wished "marry Christmas")

I'm not even sure why you provoke me with a "go on, report me!" request, but I have done it for you as you forced me to do so. There's no need to incite others to call in moderation because we disagree.

But if you must tell us that you consider your feedback and yourself better than any other person in this thread and community, go for it. Regardless your attitude, I don't like your idea of balancing the elites, and there's nothing wrong to say that.

all this unnecessary shit to FRP is not necessary. how you suppose to defend the battle group (medic) HQ without being able to retreat to it. its guna force everyone to put it into the base.

all this unnecessary shit to FRP is not necessary. how you suppose to defend the battle group (medic) HQ without being able to retreat to it. its guna force everyone to put it into the base.

Soft retreat after you take losses when fighting nearby, don't yolo into machine guns to throw lava grenades at them, it is static but still durable and you can reinforce besides it.
This change will only hurt OKW in larger teamgame modes when they can camp an area and constantly harrash without requiring any tactic besides spreading out their vet5 infantry.

Anybody else notice the strange shape of the 17 Pounder?

...No?
Or do you mean that it is now fairly hard to hit it from afar?

The building preview to say the least. It's a rectangle box rather than a perfect square.

Soft retreat after you take losses when fighting nearby,.

easier said then done, you know i cant move the medic truck around the god damn map right

This change will only hurt OKW in larger teamgame modes

well should have known, no wonder you'd support this as it doesn't effect your glorious USF in anyway and hits the faction you despise

easier said then done, you know i cant move the medic truck around the god damn map right

well should have known, no wonder you'd support this as it doesn't effect your glorious USF in anyway and hits the faction you despise

Sounds like an l2p issue. The change was made to discourage blobbing by the WFA armies and because immobile FRPs were simply too powerful compared to the mobile halftracks that EFA armies have that were supposed to be it's counterpart.

It affects USF just as much as it affects OKW. Major FRPs have the same penalty. Even with the delaying changes OKW can still potentially get it's FRP up before USF techs to major.

"Ambush
The primary issue with Ambush is that the passive sprint bonus prevents Commandos from dealing damage. This becomes problematic when facing automatic-fire enemy units (e.g., most units from the OKW faction)

- Sprint bonus from ambush (+50% speed for 5 seconds) changed to +35% speed for 2.5 seconds
- Commandos can now fire their weapons while moving when the Ambush bonus is active
- Sprint bonus now requires Vet2"
Fire on the run is terrible idea since it will allow to chase down and finish any surviving entities that retreat (allowing one of the units that already can wipe out enemy squads reliably become even better at it).

It also makes little sense. Ambush is about lying in wait and attacking the enemy from concealed positions when it comes to one's position. Not moving in stealth and attacking the enemy in his position.

Being able to move in stealth and trow some of the most powerful grenades is simply cheesy.

The Ostheer "ambush camouflage" is far better ambush design since it requires the ambushing units to be static.

Imo commandos should start with static cammo and maybe gain moving camo with veterancy. Sprint should simply be removed and if needed commandos could get some more mid DPS by the ambush bonus or by replacing some stens with different weapons or by changing sten's DPS curve by moving some DPS from close DPS to mid.

Brit Sniper

- Non-turreted vehicles will suffer from -75% speed penalty and weapons disabled for 3 seconds (down from complete stun for 5 seconds)
Glad to see that you incorporate one of my suggestions.

Figured out another way to combat Zeroing Artillery vs Emplacements. If your enemy is already driven off and your emplacements themselves aren't under threat, immediately tell them to hold fire. This is especially true for Mortar Pits and 17 Pounders. Their long range lets them keep hitting targets and get them revealed through the fog of war. Tell them to hold fire and the bombardment may stop.

Loving the 17 Pounder by the way. Far more useful now. I can see why you never added armour to the Mortar Pit. Vehicles are having a hard time hitting it. Haha.

yea the emplacements are harder to hit, but I didn't get a chance to test indirect fire or cal ins vs them how much dmg do those do? and wat about flame weapons

There was a small ninja-update last night that hopefully fixes the following issues:
- Soviet call-ins not losing the price penalty after teching
- Reload icon missing from Reload MG
- Commando smoke grenades/Sapper destroy cover being able to be cast on entities (and bugging as a result)
- Universal Carrier/Churchill preferring paths that force them to go in reverse

Also, some new things:

Pathing improvements
- Adjusted all vehicles/team-weapons in the game to prefer using forward movement to react to “right-click” commands.
- Units will use a reverse motion, only if significant gains are to be had (e.g., if a path that uses reverse is 2 seconds faster than any other path that doesn't use reverse)
- This doesn’t affect explicit reverse commands

Churchill
Increased the radius of the infantry support smoke buff to match the visuals; suppression modifier changed from -80% to -95% for units hiding in the smoke

17 pounder
- Armour reduced from 3 to 1.4 (due to being TOO resilient to small-arms fire)


So.. Let us know how the new pathing feels and how to make it better.

Recon Paratroopers don't get Tactical Assault, they lay mines in exchange.

You should play them. Recon paras with thompsons have tactical assault. They don't get demos in exchange for laying mines



However, it seems that tactical assault being missing was either an issue on my side or a bug since with 2.1 it's back

You should play them. Recon paras with thompsons have tactical assault. They don't get demos in exchange for laying mines



However, it seems that tactical assault being missing was either an issue on my side or a bug since with 2.1 it's back

Jolly Good.
Shame they still have 3 Thompsons instead of 4, or was it 2 Thompsons and one BAR?