DevM vs. VonIvan reffing and player decision re: bugsplat

Well, I'm not saying that devm didn't deserve to win. He played better and he would have won in ace game even without additional handicap. I'm just saying that in future tournaments there should absolutely no tolerance for bugsplats. Especially in BO5 and up.

For example in motosports if engine breaks in a car nobody says "Well, we do admit he lost this race but he should start one lap before everybody else next time becouse he had a bad luck". No. He just loses the race. And that is all.

Not to mention that if devm played a game more he would know how to avoid these situations so one could say that bugsplats are his disadvantage.

I don't have much of an idea about motorsports, but I'd imagine it's different. Engine breakdown is essentially a hardware issue that is your and the team's fault.

In this situation, however, DevM is not to blame. It is purely an issue out of his control due to the way the game is coded. Literally anyone can get that crash. It's happened to me quite a few times with CoH2, and I like to think I keep my PC clean, and I have good specs. I don't know if restarting the game actually helps, since I've had it happen both on fresh starts of the game and when I've already played a few games.

The bottom line is: there is no known way to avoid bugsplats. It can happen to anyone, at any point. In tournament games, situations like this need to be judged on a case-by-case basis, you cannot just go by the rules themselves.

I agree that there probably isn't anything DevM could do to fix his issues with any reasonable amount of effort. That doesn't excuse his attitude about the whole thing.

I do not think Von was winning that series no matter what you decided. I do find it somewhat concerning that you seem so willing to hand a player the win outright without the other playing conceding to it, even if you ended up giving him the loss as has been the custom in most(all?) tourneys so far (but with a cherry of an extra pick on top).

Yeah, that's the decision that's got everyone up in arms. Why did all of a sudden DevM get preferable treatment? Von should have been given the win for that game and moved on like normal to the next game.

Conclusions for future tournaments

• All bugsplats should require to be screenshotted.
  
• More detailed rules and processes should be put in place for this, with scenario examples. So there is less weight on the judgement of referees.
  
• more time given to make decisions of this nature, and a calmer less pressured response from myself.
  

I would add one more condition to prevent this.

• All game clients must be restarted after every game in the series. Bugsplats (almost) never occur during first games.
  

This should allow refs to take more punishing approach towards players that bugsplat. It's nobody's fault if a) they forget to restart B) their hardware/software config is not tournament capable

GCS rigged

I agree that there probably isn't anything DevM could do to fix his issues with any reasonable amount of effort. That doesn't excuse his attitude about the whole thing.

I do not think Von was winning that series no matter what you decided at that point. I do find it somewhat concerning that you seem so willing to hand a player the win outright without the other player conceding to it, even if you ended up giving him the loss as has been the custom in most(all?) tourneys so far (but with a cherry of an extra pick on top).

I completely agree that this was a small fuck up by me overall, to not have better rules in place, and to think of a custom solution instead of just saying replay the game. There is no dispute there.

However I'm just trying to ensure people do not think I acted in a way that favoured DevM, based on the rules he could have been given the win. Regardless the situation ended in a direct rematch that DevM won so it ended ok.

Yeah, that's the decision that's got everyone up in arms. Why did all of a sudden DevM get preferable treatment? Von should have been given the win for that game and moved on like normal to the next game.

Based on the rules of this tournament we should have given DevM the win, which would have ended in a worse shit storm.

I'm not saying the rules are perfect, they're clearly not.

But we did not act in a way that favoured DevM, and it is regrettable that it would appear to anyone that way.

I don't have much of an idea about motorsports, but I'd imagine it's different. Engine breakdown is essentially a hardware issue that is your and the team's fault.

In this situation, however, DevM is not to blame. It is purely an issue out of his control due to the way the game is coded. Literally anyone can get that crash. It's happened to me quite a few times with CoH2, and I like to think I keep my PC clean, and I have good specs. I don't know if restarting the game actually helps, since I've had it happen both on fresh starts of the game and when I've already played a few games.

The bottom line is: there is no known way to avoid bugsplats. It can happen to anyone, at any point. In tournament games, situations like this need to be judged on a case-by-case basis, you cannot just go by the rules themselves.

There were 98 GCS matches played up to current date (including rematches). 16 of them featured DevM. In 2 of his matches he bugsplatted. That means he bugsplats every 8th match, while all the other players played 82 matches without a single bugsplat. Are they magicians? Should they play lottery? No. They just know what they are doing and respect the tournament enough to do everything they can to avoid such problems. And I would expect similar behaviour from #1 seed.

There were 98 GCS matches played up to current date (including rematches). 16 of them featured DevM. In 2 of his matches he bugsplatted. That means he bugsplats every 8th match, while all the other players played 82 matches without a single bugsplat. Are they magicians? Should they play lottery? No. They just know what they are doing and respect the tournament enough to do everything they can to avoid such problems. And I would expect same behaviour from #1 seed.

Can you back up that statement with a source? I'd be interested to read or have a look at it.

Can you back up that statement with a source? I'd be interested to read or have a look at it.

Here is the source: http://tiny.cc/COH2GCS

The bracket doesnt include rematches so you have to add one match to DevM - Talisman.

The VODs showing that additional, bugsplatted match happened should be possible to found on Stormless twitch page. Same with the bugsplat that happened yesterday.

First up, I don't care either way, but I'm fairly sure this statement

Based on the rules of this tournament we should have given DevM the win.

isn't correct. The rules basically say either the players agree on how to proceed, or a ref will moderate and ultimately decide on how to proceed. It doesn't say anything about on what basis the ref should decide on, right?

So, anything could have been possible, award the win to Von or DevM, or a rematch, or whatever we ended up with, or something completely obscure. That would all be covered by the written rules. And I feel that stating that you operated outside the rules (even though you didn't) actually hurts your case.

Now, skimmed a bit over the previous tournaments, and those that actually have a provision for this case, handle it the way GCS has (players decide, otherwise ref decides) or have something like "Disconnect in the first x minutes: Rematch, after that auto-lose". Hooligan's tourneys use the latter, which is probably why he first thought the win would go to Von...

A_E, we appreciate all the work you are doing for the GCS (&us). It was a tricky situation and you took what's probably the fairer choice for both player.

It's bo5 so the best player goes to the next stage. Giving a straight lose to devM on a bugsplat when he is about to base rape Von and win the bo would have been wrong. They basically replayed the game and devM once again come on the top. None of the players were cheated.

I don't even see why some are bitching but hey, haters gonna hate, don't sweat it.

First of all, forgive my english wich is not every time perfect. I am not a true pillar of this communauty. But i am part of it, and i was assisting to the live yesterday.

I feel weird about this. I wish we could stop this trial on A_E. He's doing his best to bring this tournament, he invest so much of his time and do it with passion. So let's try to be constructiv, not destructiv.

To be fair, it was a tough decision. Everything has to be quick. To please the communauty, pursue and over this serie. Because Hans and Luvnest was next.

I feel the problem here is that people think that A_E was the the judge jury and executioner, and his decisions was biased. Let's see the problem here. Giving faction and map choice to Von Ivan was maybe a free win as well to him. So i don't think the rematch is the problem in my opinion. Problem is maybe more the procedure, the rules and the fact that Devm is despise in this communauty.

Maybe the communauty have to decide a clear rule on what's going on if a player bugsplat. And if he does, he has to show a proof of this bugsplat.

Why not draw lots in the contributors to have referees extern to the cast ? i don't know. So much could be done.

First of all, forgive my english wich is not every time perfect. I am not a true pillar of this communauty. But i am part of it, and i was assisting to the live yesterday.

I feel weird about this. I wish we could stop this trial on A_E. He's doing his best to bring this tournament, he invest so much of his time and do it with passion. So let's try to be constructiv, not destructiv.

To be fair, it was a tough decision. Everything has to be quick. To please the communauty, pursue and over this serie. Because Hans and Luvnest was next.

I feel the problem here is that people think that A_E was the the judge jury and executioner, and his decisions was biased. Let's see the problem here. Giving faction and map choice to Von Ivan was maybe a free win as well to him. So i don't think the rematch is the problem in my opinion. Problem is maybe more the procedure, the rules and the fact that Devm is despise in this communauty.

Maybe the communauty have to decide a clear rule on what's going on if a player bugsplat. And if he does, he has to show a proof of this bugsplat.

Why not draw lots in the contributors to have referees extern to the cast ? i don't know. So much could be done.

Even if the player provides a bug splat report some ownership has to be on the player. Ferwiner provided insight that DevM is having more bug splats then everyone else.

hey. before you trash devm for totally getting basically REMATCH, vonasten crashed too, devm could take win, but they played rematch also. i dont see what is the problem here. rather rematches with same factions and maps than free wins for any1 (even for devm who was without a doubt about 5 min away from win in that game)

There were 98 GCS matches played up to current date (including rematches). 16 of them featured DevM. In 2 of his matches he bugsplatted. That means he bugsplats every 8th match, while all the other players played 82 matches without a single bugsplat. Are they magicians? Should they play lottery? No. They just know what they are doing and respect the tournament enough to do everything they can to avoid such problems. And I would expect similar behaviour from #1 seed.

I don't know what DevM did or did not do to avoid bugsplat. If he isn't aware of it already, he should be restarting the game between each match to avoid that behaviour.

However, the CoH2 is what it is, and DevM might be using a different rig from the other players. Maybe there's something about DevM's machine that causes stability problems to CoH2.

To avoid similar issues in the future, why not just make it a rule for the bugsplatter to provide screenshots of the splat?

I don't know what DevM did or did not do to avoid bugsplat. If he isn't aware of it already, he should be restarting the game between each match to avoid that behaviour.

However, the CoH2 is what it is, and DevM might be using a different rig from the other players. Maybe there's something about DevM's machine that causes stability problems to CoH2.

There have been other other bug splats in GCS so far for other players, although DevM has had two, and we would definitely ask him to check out his hardware before the final, luckily he won't be playing on his own computer for the final.

Even if the player provides a bug splat report some ownership has to be on the player. Ferwiner provided insight that DevM is having more bug splats then everyone else.

Yeah but it doesn't mean that Devm bugsplatted intentionally. I feel if the same issue happened between Hans and Luvnest, nobody would protest against A_E decision.

I don't know what DevM did or did not do to avoid bugsplat. If he isn't aware of it already, he should be restarting the game between each match to avoid that behaviour.

However, the CoH2 is what it is, and DevM might be using a different rig from the other players. Maybe there's something about DevM's machine that causes stability problems to CoH2.

To avoid similar issues in the future, why not just make it a rule for the bugsplatter to provide screenshots of the splat?

If there is something wrong with his machine, accompanying software, coh2 installation or whatever else he had enough time to solve the issue before semi final. If you were #1 seed and during training you would suffer bugsplats every few games would you just let it be or would you do whatever you can to solve this? My assumption, but only assumption is that devm just thought "what a shit game this is" every time and did nothing to help himself.

There have been other other bug splats in GCS so far for other players, although DevM has had two, and we would definitely ask him to check out his hardware before the final, luckily he won't be playing on his own computer for the final.

What were the other bugsplats? I don't remember them, but I would like to hear about them. Was that during qualifiers? I didn't take qualifiers into my calculations becouse that was too much work.

how you solve bugsplat ? tell me the trick, other than restart game

id like to solve this bugsplat issue too but im not nerd enough to find the solution

oh and dude above me ^ vonasten bugsplatted too vs devm. they went rematch, no free wins