T 34 a much better tank than P4

How do you feel when a Jackson (dedicated tank destroyer) bounces on a P4?

Chances of M36 bouncing on PZIV are 0 at all ranges

Chances of M36 bouncing off a Vet 2 PZIV or OKW PZIV are (ranges 60//30//0):
14.5%//6%//0

Chances Of PZIV bouncing off M36 are (range 40//20//0):
23%//15%//8%

How do you feel when a Jackson (dedicated tank destroyer) bounces on a P4?

Note: keyword is feel. Not how well can you read stats.

He also said 150 fuel, so Ost Vet 0 P4 isn't relevant.

Edit: Just for fun whats the % chance of an allied medium to pen the JP4

Sherman
Cost 340/110 pop 12
VS
JP
Cost 400/135 pop 14

Chance to bounce off front/side armor penetration
57%//48%//39%

Chance to bounce off rear/side
0%//0%//0%

It should be noted that the PzIV was continually improved throughout the war with many variants, whereas the T-34, not so much. The additions to the T-34 were few compared to that of the PzIV.

If you were complaining about combat statistics, the T-34 had better armor than the original PzIVs, but those were as stated many times before armed with a infantry support howitzer not meant for armored warfare. This was rectified in the PzIV's later versions rather quickly. Also, the Germans had a radio in every tank, while the Soviets had radios in only command tanks (platoon leaders), which really blunted their initial superiority. The Soviets fixed their radio problem only after PzIVs upgraded their firepower.

However, the fact that the PzIV was continually added upon is indeed a double-edged sword. By the end of the war, the PzIV had become so top-heavy with all of its additions in frontal armor that the mobility of the PzIV was much lower than the T-34 series and even comparable than the PzVI Tiger, something twice its weight.

However, since gameplay experience and/or balance is more important than historical authenticity, it is how it is currently. If you wanted a game with more historical accuracy, Men of War Assault Squad 2 is a good contender, although it has a much higher learning curve and more babysitting your units.

Gameplay > Historical accuracy.

False.


Krupp steel > Staluminium

False.


Krupp steel > Staluminium

Stalin would not be proud

T-34 also depends on the manufacturer's factory: some factories made tanks with additional armor (+15 mm front armor / tower, +15 mm front armor on late models with hexagonal tower), stamped tower

T-34 was obviously much better design than p4. But it is not true that in game it is reversed. The thing is that these tanks were modified multiple times during the war and if you compare late to early war versions, the late one will always be better, even if the initial design was flawed. In this case, the p4 germans get from their tiers is a 1944 version, while the t-34/76 is a 1942 version. Later in the war soviets switched to mass producing t-34/85 and this is the tank you should compare to p4 in 1943 and up setting. In that case the t-34/85, both in game and in real life, is much better than any version of p4 ever made.

This also has lots to do with the design of factions, becouse while ostheer uses their 43-44 equipment in all their tiers, including T1, soviets tend to move in time with tech, from 41-42 to 43 and get their 1944 units only in commanders.

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T-34 was obviously much better design than p4. But it is not true that in game it is reversed. The thing is that these tanks were modified multiple times during the war and if you compare late to early war versions, the late one will always be better, even if the initial design was flawed. In this case, the p4 germans get from their tiers is a 1944 version, while the t-34/76 is a 1942 version. Later in the war soviets switched to mass producing t-34/85 and this is the tank you should compare to p4 in 1943 and up setting. In that case the t-34/85, both in game and in real life, is much better than any version of p4 ever made.

This also has lots to do with the design of factions, becouse while ostheer uses their 43-44 equipment in all their tiers, including T1, soviets tend to move in time with tech, from 41-42 to 43 and get their 1944 units only in commanders.

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good point and brawo ziomek

If you look at usual WW2 tank loadout you will notice that there is like 50-80% of HE shells, the rest are AP/HEAT shells and a few APCR (if those were available).

Tanks much often fought enemy infantry and artillery than other tanks, so all "which tank will win 1v1" comparisons are somewhat irrelevant from historical standpoint.

panzer4 G was superior to T-34. T-34 had no radios, you sat on a plank and drove around with a stick. German tanks were made of quality and comfort. Historic documentaries always likes to shit on germans and compares early models of panzer4 to T-34 but in coh2 we have the G model which was upgunned and could easily penetrate a T-34.

panzer4 G was superior to T-34. T-34 had no radios, you sat on a plank and drove around with a stick. German tanks were made of quality and comfort. Historic documentaries always likes to shit on germans and compares early models of panzer4 to T-34 but in coh2 we have the G model which was upgunned and could easily penetrate a T-34.

In coh2 we have different situation, when p4g from future 1944-45 meets t34 from 1941. As earlier was said, more correct compare p4g with t34-85, not 76. Germans not were fools, no one country don't produced tanks for comfort of their crew (tank not sportcar). They did their tanks used previous experience and works of engineers. As soviets did. And documentaries not throw shit on germans tanks. Main trouble with german tanks was their small quantity (thanks for non-war economic, soviets first started worked entirely on war) and troubles which grew from this fact (how many AT guns were in German divison in 1941 and 1944? and don't forget their increased weight) for World War you need quantity, not quality.
For p4G - why germans was must increased thickness of armor, while soviets remain the same? Because soviets has advantage with artillery and tanks (don't forget PTRS too). Why soviets not increase armor? Because it will increase weight and decrease reliability and speed of tank. Slow tank is dead tank. Slow, heavy armored tanks good for defense while fast tanks for offense (1941- fast, reliable Pz2 and 3 and slow, non-reliable t34-76 and kv-1).
In the same situation was KV-1, when germans bring on battlefield new AT guns and new panzers, all it armor became...useless. And were only 2 ways: increase armor, or decrease armor and increase speed. Was choosed 2-nd way (and then after KV-1 was ended to produce, was started to production new heavy - IS). Because, heavy armored, slow moved and breaking everytime tank the best target for artillery and other tanks.

Another thing all documentaries and games like world of tanks fail to mention is german steel was of much higher quality than soviet steel. I always laugh how shit Tiger armor is in all those games because they never take the actual quality of the steel in consideration.

And remember... no T34 had radios and those who did had shit radios. Germans had throat microphones which didn't pick up all the noise inside the tank. Germans were far superior to the soviets which shows in every casualty report despite nearly always being outnumbered.

Another thing all documentaries and games like world of tanks fail to mention is german steel was of much higher quality than soviet steel. I always laugh how shit Tiger armor is in all those games because they never take the actual quality of the steel in consideration.

And remember... no T34 had radios and those who did had shit radios. Germans had throat microphones which didn't pick up all the noise inside the tank. Germans were far superior to the soviets which shows in every casualty report despite nearly always being outnumbered.

T34-85 had radios and headsets, and quality were enough to work. Quality of steel of 2-nd half of 1944-1945 german tanks was...awful (lack of alloying additives, especially in 1945). Tiger has 100mm frontal armor, nothing special to Is-2 (and for t-34-85 on 800 meters). Germans were superior in 1941-1942 and outdated in 1944-1945. As one german said "In 1945 Wehrmacht was looking as Red Army of 1941 when Red Army in 1945 looking as Wehrmacht of 1941". Not only weapons wins the wars. Soldiers and generals do that. In 1941 soviet had better tanks and weapons compare to germans, but losing one battle for another. In 1945 we have mirror situation (KT, JT, Tigers vs Is-2, t-34-85 and e.t.c).
If you know how works blietzkrieg - it's when you OUTNUMBERED your enemy on short range of front and used your tanks to breakthrough (and infantry in halftrack followed by them). As Fridrich 2 said "God of war love big battalions".