How to counter this 2v2 double OKW meta?

I ususally never ever post threads like these, so I think you can imagine how "dangerous" this meta has become. Show Spoiler

Since the last 2 patches I have tried out almost everything to counter this meta, I am running out of ideas

More and more axis players, especially arranged teams use this:

Player A:

This player always picks special operations doc. Apart from the usual volks and raketen spam, he always rushes t2 and brings out double Stuka, waits for command panther and uses these incounterable recon flares in order to roflstomp every single support gun on the field with his 2 stukas. Once the support guns are dead, he has no problems anymore to dive in with volks spam and cloaked raketens

Yes, when you spend 200 fuel right off the start only for arty, that makes you fragile vs medium tank rushes. ~that's what you may think But it just seems so damn easy to protect the stukas with volks spam, fukin cloaked raketens everywhere and an entire 2nd OKW player that helps you.

Also I dont understand why this unit has twice as much HP as Katyusha or Panzerwerfer, and has the most accurate barrage which hurts both inf and vehicles in CoH2 as a non - doctrinal vet 0 unit

Player B:

This player usually spams volks and raketens as well (nothing special), but prefers a med HQ with forward retreat and ISG spam, and tries to rush t4 asap. He uses a situational commander loadout, though this includes Breakthrough (JT) and Fortifications doc in 99% of the cases.

and now u can maybe understand how funny it is to play vs all this indirect fire/callins/ artis from allies...LM is the most anyoing think in this game...after this comes the mortar emplacment...which is one of the stupiest Op think in this game...well defended...it detroy most 2v2 games, cause it can bomb 3/4 from the map

Obvious counters that render double-stukas near useless? Don´t blob. Don´t spam support weapons.Stukas cant do anything against mobile infantry and tanks. 200 Fuel spend on in-effective arty isn´t going to win you anything.

Recon flares can easily be countered by moving your units once you see it.

I don´t see how double-stukas is some kind of uncounterable strat...And all the other things are just normal OKW builds.

Obvious counters that render double-stukas near useless? Don´t blob. Don´t spam support weapons.Stukas cant do anything against mobile infantry and tanks. 200 Fuel spend on in-effective arty isn´t going to win you anything.

Recon flares can easily be countered by moving your units once you see it.

I don´t see how double-stukas is some kind of uncounterable strat...And all the other things are just normal OKW builds.

maybe some advices for high rank play and not if you encounter rank 1000 skrubs

"dont spam support weapons" lol then what u wanna do vs OKW volks spam, especially if u push and they turtle behind green cover next to a med HQ? Beat them with your own inf? :/

"OKW flares are fine, just leave the sector" dude not that this advice itself is hilarious enough, smart players can predict the retreat path of your squads easy with stuka

and now u can maybe understand how funny it is to play vs all this indirect fire/callins/ artis from allies...LM is the most anyoing think in this game...after this comes the mortar emplacment...which is one of the stupiest Op think in this game...well defended...it detroy most 2v2 games, cause it can bomb 3/4 from the map

hmm ok then explain to me why ISG spam is less cancer than mortar pits

And what other allies indirect fire spam is OP in your opinion? land matress got nerfed hard, and Calliope comes very late and is way more expensive than a stuka. And a stuka is non doctrinal and is available very early

maybe some advices for high rank play and not if you encounter rank 1000 skrubs

"dont spam support weapons" lol then what u wanna do vs OKW volks spam that turtles behind green cover next to a med HQ? :/

"OKW flares are fine, just leave the sector" dude not that this advice itself is hilarious enough, smart players can predict the retreat path of your squads easy with stuka

This is some of the most one-sided biased allied fanboy non-sense I have ever seen. First you say double-stuka is super OP and can´t be countered. Then you go on and claim Volks camping next to med HQ is some sort of super OP strat.

Stukas are really only effective against support weapon spam and people that can´t retreat/move their troops in time. I am not sure in which category you fall. Once you hear Stukas you still have plenty of time to move your troops. Not sure what the big problem is. No matter how good you are you can´t just "predict" where troops go. Obviously if you just move all of your troops into the same direction every single time a Stuka shoots at you it is kind of easy to predict but who does that?

hmm ok then explain to me why ISG spam is less cancer than mortar pits

And what other allies indirect fire spam is OP in your opinion? land matress got nerfed hard, and Calliope comes very late and is way more expensive than a stuka. And a stuka is non doctrinal and is available very early

Because ISGs don´t have some magical ability that make them next to impossible to scratch for an extended period of time?

All allied indirect fire options rape OKW forward bases. No brace, no nothing. Easy to counter and if lost expensive to replace.

I ususally never ever post threads like these, so I think you can imagine how "dangerous" this meta has become. Show Spoiler

Since the last 2 patches I have tried out almost everything to counter this meta, I am running out of ideas

More and more axis players, especially arranged teams use this:

Player A:

This player always picks special operations doc. Apart from the usual volks and raketen spam, he always rushes t2 and brings out double Stuka, waits for command panther and uses these incounterable recon flares in order to roflstomp every single support gun on the field with his 2 stukas. Once the support guns are dead, he has no problems anymore to dive in with volks spam and cloaked raketens

Yes, when you spend 200 fuel right off the start only for arty, that makes you fragile vs medium tank rushes. ~that's what you may think But it just seems so damn easy to protect the stukas with volks spam, fukin cloaked raketens everywhere and an entire 2nd OKW player that helps you.

Also I dont understand why this unit has twice as much HP as Katyusha or Panzerwerfer, and has the most accurate barrage which hurts both inf and vehicles in CoH2 as a non - doctrinal vet 0 unit

Player B:

This player usually spams volks and raketens as well (nothing special), but prefers a med HQ with forward retreat and ISG spam, and tries to rush t4 asap. He uses a situational commander loadout, though this includes Breakthrough (JT) and Fortifications doc in 99% of the cases.

Yup the good old 2 OKW in 2vs2 Almost every teams does this. Always Fun(NOT!) to play vs this.

Yup the good old 2 OKW in 2vs2 Almost every teams does this. Always Fun(NOT!) to play vs this.

Yeah...double brits is much more fun to play against...lol

the problem of the stuka is that comes very early compare to allies arty and it will you bleed mp to reinforce unit that suffered from that arty. So okw can easily counter light vehicles in 2v2.

Yeah...double brits is much more fun to play against...lol

Tbh yes it is.

ISG and when you are Wehrmacht on a open map: Sniper^^

Only way for brits: Emplacementspam try with some docs. But its depends on the maps. But most maps are great for okw atm

Tbh yes it is.

ISG and when you are Wehrmacht on a open map: Sniper^^

Only way for brits: Emplacementspam try with some docs. But its depends on the maps. But most maps are great for okw atm

This is some of the most one-sided biased allied fanboy non-sense I have ever seen. First you say double-stuka is super OP and can´t be countered. Then you go on and claim Volks camping next to med HQ is some sort of super OP strat.

Stukas are really only effective against support weapon spam and people that can´t retreat/move their troops in time. I am not sure in which category you fall. Once you hear Stukas you still have plenty of time to move your troops. Not sure what the big problem is. No matter how good you are you can´t just "predict" where troops go. Obviously if you just move all of your troops into the same direction every single time a Stuka shoots at you it is kind of easy to predict but who does that?

Call me again if you reached the top 1000 in 2v2 (I just checked your stats)

Once you hear Stukas you still have plenty of time to move your troops.

ITT, stuka's never hit.

If they never hit, why would people use them?

Oh. Because they hit

Stukas are really only effective against support weapon spam and people that can´t retreat/move their troops in time. I am not sure in which category you fall. Once you hear Stukas you still have plenty of time to move your troops. Not sure what the big problem is. No matter how good you are you can´t just "predict" where troops go. Obviously if you just move all of your troops into the same direction every single time a Stuka shoots at you it is kind of easy to predict but who does that?

So let's say you get rid of their support weapons with the stuka, what stops you from wrecking stuff with vet 3+ volks? You can drive right in with a tank, and blob because their AT guns are gone as well as their MGs.

And you CAN predict where troops go, because there are only certain areas they can go depending on the situation and map, and the flare that lasts 10 seconds gives you all the information you need to get a good shot off. And you can just drive the stuka all the way back to base, although this problem exists for calliope as well. IMO all mobile arty pieces should be 1-2 shots.

So let's say you get rid of their support weapons with the stuka, what stops you from wrecking stuff with vet 3+ volks? You can drive right in with a tank, and blob because their AT guns are gone as well as their MGs.

And you CAN predict where troops go, because there are only certain areas they can go depending on the situation and map, and the flare that lasts 10 seconds gives you all the information you need to get a good shot off. And you can just drive the stuka all the way back to base, although this problem exists for calliope as well. IMO all mobile arty pieces should be 1-2 shots.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++1

All rocket arty barrage should cost munition.

Pzwerfer
Calliop
Priest
katy
Stuka
Brit OP shit I miss the name right now
Sexton

>> all kind of barrage >> 60 to 100 munitions. So you can make those unit a bit cheaper or easier to access but using them has a cost.

Since you posted this in the gameplay section, I doubt you did this to gather advice; else you should have posted this in the state office.

From my part, all I can say is that the following inconsistencies/bugs make the situation vs OKW even more desperate than what it needs to be:
- Infiltration nades costing 15 MU; on the most spammable unit. That allows you to stockpile munitions to use for..
- 60MU uncounterable, warning-free, Artillery flare. This is in the same game where EFA has to pay 80MU for AA-fodder plane
- USF/Soviet AT weapons suffering from a -40% movement penalty when crossing craters (which is what the Stukas will spawn)
- Walking stuka not suffering from the usual scatter when firing into the fog of war, unlike every other artillery piece in the game (yeah it still suffers a +25% modifier. However +25% of 0 is still 0)
- Walking stuka being pinpoint accurate regardless of range, unlike other artillery pieces (this makes those 320HP even more annoying since it can fire from max range).
- ISGs being able to use the barrage bug to double-tap
- ISG barrage bulletins making it possible for ISGs to barrage at insane-ranges non-stop
- ISG max scatter capping far too early. This means you don't get the usual quadratic penalties other indirect fire pieces get when firing further; you only get linear penalties
- Vet5 for the lulz

Finally, above all is the relative micro requirements to use any of the above abilities compared to the micro requirements counterparts the opponent has to constantly invest to dodge those units/abilities.

After reading this Thread I am fairly happy that there are still people at relic who need to approve the changes all allied fanbois want to implement in this game.

pressure him early with light vechiles if he goes double stuka and med truck then he has no real way to deal with them other then rektens which are slow and imobile you should easily have most of the map. From there get weapons upgrades on inf and don't build support weapons or few of them. bar riflemen and bren tommies own volks and light vechiles force him to play tight and lose map giving you more fuel to spam tanks and overwhelm him later or simply contain him. On lots of maps shouldn't be hard to get 2vps with the occasional triple cap. (I know it doesn't show but used to be #1 2v2 at with allies and axis at one point)

- Infiltration nades costing 15 MU; on the most spammable unit. That allows you to stockpile munitions to use for..

Come on now. They are so easy to dodge. Only use they really have is to force you to leave a building or to destroy a structure. I don´t even see them used a lot anyways. (in 1on1 at least, I rarely play other game modes)

- 60MU uncounterable, warning-free, Artillery flare. This is in the same game where EFA has to pay 80MU for AA-fodder plane

How is it warning-free when there are bright flares lighting up the sky above your troops? I agree that it´s a very good ability but it certainly isn´t warning-free.

- Walking stuka not suffering from the usual scatter when firing into the fog of war, unlike every other artillery piece in the game (yeah it still suffers a +25% modifier. However +25% of 0 is still 0)
- Walking stuka being pinpoint accurate regardless of range, unlike other artillery pieces (this makes those 320HP even more annoying since it can fire from max range).

That´s because Stuka is skill-based arty instead of RNG.