TDs next patch

"Elefant/Jagdtiger

2-shots -> medium tank/TD dead

Damage needs to go down from 320 to 280 to:
- Prevent these tanks from wiping veterancy left and right
- Keep them relevant vs advanced mediums/heavies
- Reworked to keep remotely relevant for smaller modes (e.g., cheaper, barrage at vet0, etc)"

"Firefly

Fireflies are mostly OK for 1v1. However:
- They have too good accuracy and moving accuracy making vehicle-play impossible against them
- This is, unless, OST/OKW use heavy-TDs (which will be getting nerfed, btw)

Solution:
- Reduce accuracy/moving accuracy to SU-85 levels
- Remove movement-stun from Tulips
- Remove damage bonus from Vet3 (too good vs mediums; might require cost decrease though)
- Maybe add Tulip use to a GLOBAL cooldown"


"JP4

- Good luck countering this unit with Soviets/USF if it's vetted
- Just nerf its Vet2 stats (HP/sight)"


"Stugs

- For the time being, just nerf its OP TWP ability to Puma/Stug-E levels
- Popcap to 10"
:MrSmith
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Imo the issue of the effectiveness of TD with range 60 and 60+ should be solved via accuracy. Allot of these units with Firefly as they bigger offender are simply to accurate at max.

Suggestions:
1) Reduce the size of medium tanks
2) Create a "category" of vehicles designed as "flanker" vehicles with even smaller size. This unis could have good speed and have high ROF/penetration only close
3) Increase the size of Super heavy vehicles
4) Adjust accuracy so that TD with accuracy 60, 60+ plus have about 90% chance to score a "hit" at max range (chance without collision).

Specific:
Firefly change Tullips to cause stun only in deflection so that this happen mostly vs supper heavies. (Maybe reserve Tullips for hammer only and maybe reserve 17p for hammer only.)

Elephant/Jagtiger/ISU-152/Dozer
Maybe try a different approach reduce range to 60 (accept dozer) add an ability similar to KV-2 where the unit has to lock down to gain extra range. (Remove penalties vision and received accuracy from KV-2, remove minimum range)

JP4
The units is problematic. It too expensive has to high pop as a counter to medium tanks has to low penetration as counter to heavy tanks. It need a specific role defined. It also needs its vet bonuses toned down.

Stug
Although stug is op it the only unit that keep Ostheer floating. TWP should help the unit survive so instead of blind a slow might work better. If pop goes up to 10 the pop of the T-34/76 should go up to 12 and the valentine pop should go down to 10.

Problem: Tank destroyers destroy tanks?

I like how you literally copied 90% of this from MrSmith's teamgame thread.

Anyway:

Elephant/Jagtiger/ISU-152/Dozer
Maybe try a different approach reduce range to 60 (accept dozer) add an ability similar to KV-2 where the unit has to lock down to gain extra range. (Remove penalties vision and received accuracy from KV-2, remove minimum range)

They are highly immobile, giving them this options basically nerfs them so hard they will never be seen again.

Why do you create a new thread for this? It's just copy paste from MrSmiths thread. I don't think this adds anything to what has been discussed already. I know your post might have been lost in the lengthy thread but I don't see any point of splitting up an ongoing discussion to focus solely on your ideas.

I was actually contacting an experiment to see who will start trolling first and now we have a winner. Now if someone has anything remotely relevant to TDs would be happy to read it, else pls stay of the thread.

I like how you literally copied 90% of this from MrSmith's teamgame thread.

Anyway:

They are highly immobile, giving them this options basically nerfs them so hard they will never be seen again.

Well there is a though of lowering price so they could still viable if they see cost decrease.

Suggestion: If damage reduction on Firefly vet 3, change to penetration to give consistent damage.

JP4
Main Gun AOE reduction, AI damage reduction on pintal MG.

So you wanna nerf the elephant/JT so it does the same dmg as the vet 3 FF, has the same range as the FF, has less accuracy than the FF, has a longer reload than the FF, has a fixed gun opposed to a turret, is extremely slow compared to a FF, is doctrinal compared to a FF....

Does the extra armor and 400/600 HP (ele/JT) really justify paying double the cost for a doctrinal unit that performs roughly the same as a FF? Nope.

If you want to any aspects of the JT/elephant (which I don't think need it) then you need to buff them somewhere else to justify their price tag.

Range definitely needs to stay at least at 70 (JT could be brought down with price decrease) because these units are so slow to rotate and move in general.

DPS must remain the same in order to keep them as HEAVY TDs. Aka if you nerf their alpha dmg to 280, you need to increase their accuracy (they have worse accuracy than panther) and ROF to still be viable against allied heavies (namely IS2 and Churchill).

Even if you changed the reload from ~8 to ~6 it would still require 2 reload cycles to kill mediums (12seconds assuming all hits) opposed to 8 seconds (one reload cycle). That's 4 extra seconds for a tank to get behind a shot blocker, move into FOG (spotting scopes already got nerfed btw) or get behind the TD to flank it.

Another option is to leave them as is but limit them to 1 per game per person. That way killing it means it's over and done with. Please don't even consider limiting the number of them per team to 1. That's just savage for the players who just wanna use one of their doctrinal units.