Infiltration Commandos are Terrible!

Alright, I have felt this way for a long time and there might be those who disagree (Light Gammon Bomb) but this unit is just awful.

- Four men instead of five.
- No Demo Charge

I have combined them with the Universal Carrier too to see if this would help them work better as a Sabotage Unit but it really isn't. Unless they have something to blow up Bunkers or Caches, there's not much they can do that other units can't do better.

Now I do understand they can come onto the map quietly as opposed to their superior Glider versions, so it makes sense something had to be given up. But in the end, they don't add much to your army.

Solution: I propose that using the Vet System, they slowly gain back abilities held by the Glider Commandos. But to make sure it can't gain the Vet too quickly and eliminate a long standing annoyance when popping out of houses, I would lock their Light Gammon Bomb behind Vet.

Vet 1 - Light Gammon Bomb
Vet 2 - Demo Charge
Vet 3 - Gain an Extra Man

Cost revision or Vet requirements might be up for debate but I feel these units need an opportunity to feel more like Glider Commandos again to do damage behind enemy lines. Not to mention that since Vet is required to unlock abilities, you can't just keep spawning Commandos all over the far corners of the map and place Demo Charges right off the bat. Pretty sure that's the reason they lost Demos in the first place. Since they need combat experience with this idea, it won't be possible to abuse them.

What do you guys think? Is this a reasonable proposal?

The solution how to fix infiltration commandos is to give them timer before they appear from building. Less cheesy squadwipes = better game

The best example of off map infantry call in how it should be is USF Paras.

Yeah all we need is another insane commando squad running around with predator cloak and throwing gammon nukes at whatever they see breathing in the vicinity of their laser identification systems.

Yeah all we need is another insane commando squad running around with predator cloak and throwing gammon nukes at whatever they see breathing in the vicinity of their laser identification systems.

Certainly hope not. Unless I am mistaken, the stats would be the same as Glider Commandos when they unlock their full potential but they will be very handicapped upon first appearing with these ideas.

Fact of the matter is that without the utility of blowing stuff up, this unit can't do what it's designed it do and that is to disrupt your enemy behind their lines. They end up becoming a Frontline Combat Unit instead like Infantry Sections but more expensive to reinforce. Not the specialists that are their Glider Counterparts. I have no complaints about their DPS but they just aren't fun or interesting to use.

Moderators? May I please have the topic renamed "Infiltration Commandos Need Reworked"? I would like to eliminate bad first impressions when people see the title and just assume I'm simply calling for a buff to Commandos and missing out the nerf parts (Nearly zero abilities at Vet 0).

What exactly are the differences between this unit and Glider Commandos? Besides different abilities and size, I always had the feeling like they are inferior versions.

Personally I don't think they should be changed to the point where they are basically glider commandos, I prefer if they filled a different role, ie scouting. I mean if they were to be glider commandos its much easier to simply replace the infiltrate ability with glider call in.

If anything, it would have been better if Commandos weren't in the Mobile Assault Regiment at all. An APC vehicle of some kind would be a better fit. I advocated a while back for Relic to replace them with the Kangaroo Carrier but to no avail.

If we are stuck with these inferior Commandos and unwilling to make them the same as their Glider Peers, they really need something to set them apart more.

As "some one" pointed out, they could maybe take a page out of the USF Paratroopers book and I assume he means give them Timed Demo Charges for sabotage purposes. Feels like plagiarism so I'm not 100% for it but would take that over what they are now.

But to your question, besides the differences already point out, they are the same stat-wise.

If infiltration commandos are terrible then what are stormtroopers?

If anything, it would have been better if Commandos weren't in the Mobile Assault Regiment at all. An APC vehicle of some kind would be a better fit. I advocated a while back for Relic to replace them with the Kangaroo Carrier but to no avail.

If we are stuck with these inferior Commandos and unwilling to make them the same as their Glider Peers, they really need something to set them apart more.

As "some one" pointed out, they could maybe take a page out of the USF Paratroopers book and I assume he means give them Timed Demo Charges for sabotage purposes. Feels like plagiarism so I'm not 100% for it but would take that over what they are now.

But to your question, besides the differences already point out, they are the same stat-wise.

The Kangaroo must never, ever, ever be seen again

Hahahahaha! I know, the days of COH: Tales of Valour are still in people's minds but I do feel armies in this game are better equipped to handle it and Infantry Sections can no longer Button your tank anymore! Though if I had to change it in any way, it would be to drive it's slot down to two at most and be a little slower than a Halftrack.

But why bother arguing further for it's inclusion. It will never happen.

PanzerGeneralForever, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Infiltration Commandos lack the utility needed to be infiltration units. They can't disrupt effectively when they lack the ability to use heavy demolition explosives, Artillery Flares or even lay Mines. They are no more than a front line infantry force that's expensive to reinforce. In other words, they are not fulfilling their intended purpose. At least Stormtroopers don't pretend to be something they are not.

What if they got the ability to pop smoke and/or sprint INSTEAD OF their gammon bomb. Then they could actually be used as a flanking/decapping squad.

Paratroopers and Stromtroopers are what all infiltrate infantry call-ins should be.
It would be less cheesy-wipe if they come out with ability cooldown and require weapons upgrade .

Not only Infiltration Commandos but most of the Infiltration are just too cheesy. There needs to be a clearer line between "insta-nuking-your-crap predators" and "Infiltrators, harassers, back-line" units. I once made these suggestions before: (https://www.coh2.org/topic/60774/changing-infiltration-units)

‎‎
- All Infiltration units got their cost reduce to about 75% of their price right now (Basically a 25% off in price), except Wehrmacht' Stormtroopers and OKW's JLI (For example: Infiltration Commandos now cost 330 MP, Fallschirmjagers cost 330 MP, AT Partysans cost 200 MP, etc.)

- All Infiltration units now come out with their respective faction's bolt-action rifles (For example: Falls with 4 Kar98ks, Commandos with 4 Lee Enfields, JLI with 4 Kar98ks, Stormtroopers with 4 Kar98ks, AT Partysans with 4 Mosins, etc.)

- Axis Infiltration units now decap points 25% faster without restrictions while Allies Infiltration units now decap points 50% faster while out of combat‎. However, they'll lose this feature when upgunned, to further distinct the disrupting role and the harassing role.

(Suggested by ferwiner)

- All Infiltration units now have to buy their original weapons for a cost of some MU. For example: ‎
+ Falls pay 100 MU for 4 FG42s.
+ Commandos pay 80 MU for 4 Stens.
+ Stormtroopers pay 100 MU for 4 StG44s (I take this upgrade as the standard for all other upgrades).
+ JLI pay 30 MU for 1 scoped G43 (If possible, I'm suggesting a package of 2 non-scoped G43 and 1 scoped G43 for 75 MU).
+ AT Partysans pay 60 MU for 1 Panzerschreck.‎
+ Partysans pay 80 MU for 4 PPShs.

- All Infiltration units' grenade start-off with a cool down‎

Basically, the idea is that we take Stormtroopers as the standard for Infiltration Units, then we will make other Infiltration one balance around this standard. Paratroopers, in my opinion, are not really Infiltration Units, since there's a big ass plane fly over with a clear engine noise dropping troops behind your line (Usually you don't even drop them behind the line due to their high scatter in the FoW... If Pathfinders spawn out of building to give vision for Paradrop then maybe we would consider Paratroopers as Infiltration Units)... They are more like off-map call-ins like Guards, Shocktroopers, Panzerfusilliers, etc., not Infiltration Units.

Hahahahaha! I know, the days of COH: Tales of Valour are still in people's minds but I do feel armies in this game are better equipped to handle it and Infantry Sections can no longer Button your tank anymore! Though if I had to change it in any way, it would be to drive it's slot down to two at most and be a little slower than a Halftrack.

But why bother arguing further for it's inclusion. It will never happen.

PanzerGeneralForever, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Infiltration Commandos lack the utility needed to be infiltration units. They can't disrupt effectively when they lack the ability to use heavy demolition explosives, Artillery Flares or even lay Mines. They are no more than a front line infantry force that's expensive to reinforce. In other words, they are not fulfilling their intended purpose. At least Stormtroopers don't pretend to be something they are not.

All I'm saying is storm troopers definitely need to be fixed before infiltration commandoes do. But I agree both could use a change.

Once infiltration cheese (i.e., mini-nuke & high-power SMGs spawning out of nowhere) get fixed, infiltration commandos could immediately gain the following:
- Ability to reinforce to 5th man (still spawn as 4-man squad)
- Ability to lay demo charges, after they have been reinforced to full at least once during the game

Currently, I see nothing special that Infiltration commandos bring to the table; except for infiltration cheese on the only Brit doctrine with viable mobile indirect fire and viable flamethrowers.

Once infiltration cheese (i.e., mini-nuke & high-power SMGs spawning out of nowhere) get fixed, infiltration commandos could immediately gain the following:
- Ability to reinforce to 5th man (still spawn as 4-man squad)
- Ability to lay demo charges, after they have been reinforced to full at least once during the game

Currently, I see nothing special that Infiltration commandos bring to the table; except for infiltration cheese on the only Brit doctrine with viable mobile indirect fire and viable flamethrowers.

I think giving them 5th member with squad boolster ability would make both the commandos and ability much more interesting. What do you think ?

Also maybe decrease cost of boolster squads a bit (to 25-30 fuel ?)

Solution: I propose that using the Vet System, they slowly gain back abilities held by the Glider Commandos. But to make sure it can't gain the Vet too quickly and eliminate a long standing annoyance when popping out of houses, I would lock their Light Gammon Bomb behind Vet.

Vet 1 - Light Gammon Bomb
Vet 2 - Demo Charge
Vet 3 - Gain an Extra Man

I actually kind of rather like this idea - for me Infiltration Commandos are a "pop when you see the chance for a cheesy gammon bomb wipe" unit that are only so-so after that (basically Brit Partisans) - they aren't so bad when you get used to using them with old-fire as ambush units on VPs and Fuel Points but the lackluster Commando Vet really limits their scaling when you consider they are more fragile as a 4 man squad.

Dont think this game should allow troops to be called through any building instantaneously. Just bad design. All Commander Units should be unlocked within tiers, except for Paras and gliders. We can actually plan our BOs that way, but that's just crazy talk.

Once infiltration cheese (i.e., mini-nuke & high-power SMGs spawning out of nowhere) get fixed, infiltration commandos could immediately gain the following:
- Ability to reinforce to 5th man (still spawn as 4-man squad)
- Ability to lay demo charges, after they have been reinforced to full at least once during the game

Currently, I see nothing special that Infiltration commandos bring to the table; except for infiltration cheese on the only Brit doctrine with viable mobile indirect fire and viable flamethrowers.

Good to see I'm not the only one that see their issues. It does feel rather messy as a requirement for Demo Charges but it's better than what we have now.

Though I must ask for clarification. When you say "mini-nuke and high-power SMGs" needing to be fixed, are you talking about them as a combo being overpowered or are they both overpowered in their own way?

I feel the base stats for Stens should be left alone. But if there's a way to prevent their Ambush Bonus from working upon spawning out of a building, that might help a lot in toning them down.

If I may throw out another possibility for a Light Gammon Bomb nerf on the Infiltration Commandos (If Vet doesn't get used as a limiter), we could place a cooldown timer on them that doesn't let them use their Gammons right away upon spawning. A throwback to the CoH1 days.

Once infiltration cheese (i.e., mini-nuke & high-power SMGs spawning out of nowhere) get fixed, infiltration commandos could immediately gain the following:
- Ability to reinforce to 5th man (still spawn as 4-man squad)
- Ability to lay demo charges, after they have been reinforced to full at least once during the game

Currently, I see nothing special that Infiltration commandos bring to the table; except for infiltration cheese on the only Brit doctrine with viable mobile indirect fire and viable flamethrowers.

So uhm, how exactly can they lay a charge behind enemy lines IF they are required to have a 5th man?