I like Ægion's suggestions
His suggestions are good, but i think range of snare could be increased to 30 if you are building t4, to help fighting against late armor in late game phase.
Penals op
5 May 2017, 13:31 PM
#21
Posts: 711
His suggestions are good, but i think range of snare could be increased to 30 if you are building t4, to help fighting against late armor in late game phase.
5 May 2017, 14:25 PM
#22
Posts: 212
In the last game ally was complaining that 2x Penal sticky killed his full HP P4.
If it's true.... We are in a sticky situation.
If it's true.... We are in a sticky situation.
5 May 2017, 14:30 PM
#23
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Tho I think Penals are fine in current state, they won't be fine after fixing Cons.
Like mentioned here, I raised such point months ago - you cannot balance Penals with Cons out of scope and then balance Cons with Penals ouf of scope. It's a dead end.
It would be better idea (I guess) to balance Penals like Cons were in the scope, then crawl few month with them until Cons are in scope.
Right now they are quite fine, but once Cons will be touched, they won't be. So you either get X months with not well designed Penals but after that everything is fine or you get X months with well done Penals but then much more time with screwed balance between Penals and Cons.
Unless Penals will be included in scope again but I hardly imagine that.
Like mentioned here, I raised such point months ago - you cannot balance Penals with Cons out of scope and then balance Cons with Penals ouf of scope. It's a dead end.
It would be better idea (I guess) to balance Penals like Cons were in the scope, then crawl few month with them until Cons are in scope.
Right now they are quite fine, but once Cons will be touched, they won't be. So you either get X months with not well designed Penals but after that everything is fine or you get X months with well done Penals but then much more time with screwed balance between Penals and Cons.
Unless Penals will be included in scope again but I hardly imagine that.
5 May 2017, 14:37 PM
#24
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
In the last game ally was complaining that 2x Penal sticky killed his full HP P4.
If it's true.... We are in a sticky situation.
Satchel seems to have 340 damage so it should be passable.
5 May 2017, 15:01 PM
#25
Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4
Permanently Banned
Like mentioned here, I raised such point months ago - you cannot balance Penals with Cons out of scope and then balance Cons with Penals ouf of scope. It's a dead end.
It would be better idea (I guess) to balance Penals like Cons were in the scope, then crawl few month with them until Cons are in scope.
This, i write same, you cannot balance some units, coz thay have synergy with another. and after change you will be must rework unit.
Relic killing our game, lets save COH2 from Relic 
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If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
5 May 2017, 15:15 PM
#26
Posts: 2742
Penal SVTs are rather bugged/inconsistent. The cooldown modifier is unaffected by range and it actually is reduced when penals are moving.
6 months of feedback on penals wasn't ever going to change what happened. What happened with penals was exactly what the mod team wanted, independent of feedback. At best feedback was deciding how many ptrs they get.
6 months of feedback on penals wasn't ever going to change what happened. What happened with penals was exactly what the mod team wanted, independent of feedback. At best feedback was deciding how many ptrs they get.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
5 May 2017, 15:34 PM
#27
Posts: 73
A blob of vetted Penals has extremely high DPS.
Personally I think the DPS of penals should be lowered only very, very slightly and the sticky satchel should be removed but the regular satchel retained.
Not every single infantry unit in the game needs a snare. It's kind of ridiculous. Unless you have heavy tanks that resist snares better, it seems like almost every infantry unit in the game running around can snare you. And since blobbing is so frequent in larger game modes and with munis being fairly plentiful late game, it's really not uncommon for a Panther to turn a corner and find 3-4 squads of penals there (which the panther can do nothing about since it's a terrible tank) and get 3 satchels stuck to it and then it's blown up.
Personally I think the DPS of penals should be lowered only very, very slightly and the sticky satchel should be removed but the regular satchel retained.
Not every single infantry unit in the game needs a snare. It's kind of ridiculous. Unless you have heavy tanks that resist snares better, it seems like almost every infantry unit in the game running around can snare you. And since blobbing is so frequent in larger game modes and with munis being fairly plentiful late game, it's really not uncommon for a Panther to turn a corner and find 3-4 squads of penals there (which the panther can do nothing about since it's a terrible tank) and get 3 satchels stuck to it and then it's blown up.
5 May 2017, 16:05 PM
#28
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Penal SVTs are rather bugged/inconsistent. The cooldown modifier is unaffected by range and it actually is reduced when penals are moving.
Well SVT is carbine (semi auto) weapon with the far DPS of bolt action rifle in a squad with high accuracy vet bonuses...
Relic did its best work on small arm fire in September Patch when it balanced all infantry available before minute 1 with weapon profiles and relative positioning. They should simply do the same factor in all the thing that have changed since then.
5 May 2017, 18:21 PM
#29
Posts: 766 | Subs: 2
5 May 2017, 19:00 PM
#30
Posts: 2066
If you let your p4 get sticky satchelled by 2 penals at the same time, you are doing something wrong!
Kappa
5 May 2017, 19:38 PM
#31
Posts: 2742
Well SVT is carbine (semi auto) weapon with the far DPS of bolt action rifle in a squad with high accuracy vet bonuses...
Relic did its best work on small arm fire in September Patch when it balanced all infantry available before minute 1 with weapon profiles and relative positioning. They should simply do the same factor in all the thing that have changed since then.
Sort of. Other carbines have cooldown modifiers that increase with range from the target. In fact every single rifle and lmg and smg has this except for penals svts.
Penals dps comes from the fact that they shoot fast. They have long range dps due to that rate of fire, not because of damage or accuracy.
They shoot even faster while moving, which is also unique.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
5 May 2017, 19:52 PM
#32
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
They shoot even faster while moving, which is also unique.
Actually, I think G43s have that too. Technically, just about every handheld automatic weapon also has a faster cooldown from moving, but they'll also have a shorter burst duration and lower accuracy at the same time anyway.
5 May 2017, 20:01 PM
#33
Posts: 2742
Actually, I think G43s have that too. Technically, just about every handheld automatic weapon also has a faster cooldown from moving, but they'll also have a shorter burst duration and lower accuracy at the same time anyway.
You may he right but I believe g43s just have a great moving accuracy multiplier of 0.8. Guards mosins come next at 0.75.
But I'm pretty sure the cooldown modifiers for all rifles and carbines increase firing times. And this multiplier is still affected by range unlike svts.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
5 May 2017, 20:15 PM
#34
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
You may he right but I believe g43s just have a great moving accuracy multiplier of 0.8. Guards mosins come next at 0.75.
But I'm pretty sure the cooldown modifiers for all rifles and carbines increase firing times. And this multiplier is still affected by range unlike svts.
G43s also have a 0.5 cooldown on the move. Not the most important note for these semi-autos as their cooldowns aren't that high to begin with as most of their delay is in aim-time. Penals don't have the aim-time penalties, but have 0.5 accuracy on the move instead.
Paratrooper carbines have 0.25 if we want to go lower
5 May 2017, 20:20 PM
#35
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
G43s also have a 0.5 cooldown on the move. Not the most important note for these semi-autos as their cooldowns aren't that high to begin with as most of their delay is in aim-time. Penals don't have the aim-time penalties, but have 0.5 accuracy on the move instead.
Paratrooper carbines have 0.25 if we want to go lower
Ah, ok, thank you. And with that, me and Francis' conversation ends
5 May 2017, 21:03 PM
#36
Posts: 1487
Soviet are bad, but penals are crazy op now, wtf?
that
initial statememt is 100% self contradictory
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5 May 2017, 21:17 PM
#37
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
G43s also have a 0.5 cooldown on the move. Not the most important note for these semi-autos as their cooldowns aren't that high to begin with as most of their delay is in aim-time. Penals don't have the aim-time penalties, but have 0.5 accuracy on the move instead.
Paratrooper carbines have 0.25 if we want to go lower
0.25?
No wonder they have such high DPS!
5 May 2017, 21:29 PM
#38
Posts: 184
Yeah to be fair it makes sense. Every decent Soviet unit has been nerfed into the ground so Penals might as well follow them. Why not give them the same stats as cons?
5 May 2017, 21:34 PM
#39
Posts: 985 | Subs: 2
Ægion's suggestions; I like an early game this way, almost all the changes are good.
5 May 2017, 22:32 PM
#40
Posts: 239
honestly, i'd go the other way with aegion's suggestions... every faction should start with a combat unit. this is inhibited by EFA's design, since they have to build a structure right off the bat and the WFA armies don't. starting with engineers/pios/REs is a handicap, especially with brit IS and OKW sturms available from the get-go.
that said, the variety makes life interesting, so maybe don't change anything...
that said, the variety makes life interesting, so maybe don't change anything...
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