Teamgame dominant meta

they didn't even had a mortar when they came out in Coh2

I know that. I play COH since it came out

4 vs 4 (3 vs 3)

I played Werhm a lot
I played OKW a lot. its a nightmare to face brits in map with concrete buildings around key positions coz of Vickers and InfSec

Now I play USF and I can say the same. USF can't do shit on maps where there are a lot of buildings. Rifles can't approach to any builing coz of Wermcht 2 HMGs and Mortars.

I don't build USF Mortar nowdays coz it tickles teammembers inside buildings. (and it cost a lot for its effect) or dies fast to counter barrage

I tryed another appproach I use smoke (from mortar) research grenade and throw them at where all models of HMG are sit. usually 2 grenade cant wipe team weapon also Nades are expensive and research cost fuel too. So it is not effective. THen Wherm rush to FlameHT or 222 which is normal. I did the same. So there very huge MP bleed and very little effectivness.


SO usually I as USF rush to U20 or AA HT or Both (but this is the preciuos time) and all that time Werhm sits on fuel point. So, soon i gonna face Pz4.

PS I felt bad when USF mortar wiped my squads left and right but I still cant understand Why USF can't have SOviet analog of mortar????

A powerful T0 USF mortar was too OP, due to rifles & free officer squads. USF could use some help in the indirect fire department, but that should require some delay and locking-into (e.g., pak howitzer buffs, now that Stuart is no longer a no-brainer).

A powerful T0 USF mortar was too OP, due to rifles & free officer squads. USF could use some help in the indirect fire department, but that should require some delay and locking-into (e.g., pak howitzer buffs, now that Stuart is no longer a no-brainer).

Never heard that SOviet mortar was ever OP.

Never heard that SOviet mortar was ever OP.

I think I would easily pick current USF mortar over Soviet mortar, especially if I only have 4-man weapon crews. USF mortar has shorter range, but better packup-setup (which requires micro to use).

pak howitzer buffs,).

PAK Howi is good.

But 380 mp?

Lock behind 222 or even Flame HT?

No thanks is not an answer on 4 vs 4...

I think I would easily pick current USF mortar over Soviet mortar, especially if I only have 4-man weapon crews. USF mortar has shorter range, but better packup-setup (which requires micro to use).

Sorry man doesnt work. Micro isn't a problem coz mortar cant flash HMG from any building. its gonna get wiped by stationary Wherm mortar(s). ANd MG42 sitting inside building doesn't care about 3 barrages from USF mortar.
You should remember that you decreased damage output of it.

A powerful T0 USF mortar was too OP, due to rifles & free officer squads. USF could use some help in the indirect fire department, but that should require some delay and locking-into (e.g., pak howitzer buffs, now that Stuart is no longer a no-brainer).

I´m not sure if USF requires the mortar to be T0, there is always enough room early game to play until you get 50 fuel.
The problem is putting the mortar on T1 while USF ATgun is T2. Obviously, if you need a mortar to get back your fuel, you´ll need an atgun soon after to counter the light/medium tank rush coming few minutes later. And being force into T1 and then T2 isn´t viable for USF.
USF mortar issue lies on that point. Put the mortar on T1, put the Atgun T0 and USF faction should be a bit more balanced and less predictable.

About building rush, I´m not sure there is anything we can do about. This is a strategy that works but also that can be countered. So just make sure every faction can counter building rush with their T1 (mortar-sniper-flamer-flamnade).

Sorry man doesnt work. Micro isn't a problem coz mortar cant flash HMG from any building. its gonna get wiped by stationary Wherm mortar(s). ANd MG42 sitting inside building doesn't care about 3 barrages from USF mortar.
You should remember that you decreased damage output of it.

We made USF mortar range short, so that it's no longer spammable, and doesn't completely wreck OST early game in 1v1's, which is forced to be stationary by design; especially with 222 changes to respect the light-vehicle meta.

The USF mortar is supposed to carry you until you can field light vehicles or the pak howitzer. The pak howitzer itself does need some buffs. However, again, pak howitzer changes need to be carried out with respect to 1v1 sensitivities.

The trick with USF mortar is use barrage and relocate. With high setup/pack-up times, and prudent use (e.g., reinforcing in an ambulance), it can help you get through.

4v4-early game meta will always be a secondary concern compared to 1v1 balance. As factions get rebalanced, we cannot promise that early game meta will remain the same. e.g., 4v4 early-game was dominated hard by allies pre-patch; nowadays, it's the complete opposite.

At the very least, however, we -can- smooth out some of the 4v4 late-game issues to give all factions a remotely equal chance at the late-game. That way, if your faction happens to suck in the early game, you can always try to hold out until the late-game, try to outplay your opponent, and try to make up for it then.

Games that are decided within the first 10 minute mark are not interesting to play. We've already had that for 2 years pre-Brit release.

The USF mortar is supposed to carry you

it can't

No offence but i think you at low rank.

If i waste some resources at that shit I can't deal with 222 and Flame HT later on the other hand there are hord of Volks + Sturmpio. They are not that big problem coz I can win fight with better positioning
.

On some maps 4 Werhmacht even better if there is no Sov.

Cos Brits and USF cant beat 2 HMG and 2 Mortars at the beggining no way. No need grens even. COz its 8 MG42 and 8 Mortars

I watch a lot of 1 vs 1 too. I do not remember when the last time I've seen USF using Mortar. It is just dump of preciuos resorces. Better to have more squads on the field to flank whermach everywhere and have better map control means resorces to yourself and less for opponent.

Btw (for 4 vs 4) vehicals in T1 cost 340MP (U20) and 350 (AA HT) like Pz4?

I watch a lot of 1 vs 1 too. I do not remember when the last time I've seen USF using Mortar. It is just dump of preciuos resorces. Better to have more squads on the field to flank whermach everywhere and have better map control means resorces to yourself and less for opponent.

Btw (for 4 vs 4) vehicals in T1 cost 340MP (U20) and 350 (AA HT) like Pz4?

This is now going off-topic as this is heavily-tied to 1v1, and the long-term viability of tiers.

As long as USF gets free officers (which means an extra squad out when it really matters), and their vehicles are supposed to have good shock value (even stronger early game), their vehicles cannot be cheap. Having vehicles affordable for the late-game means that Lieutenant is no longer the "MG tier" and Captain is the "Low-risk" tier.

We tried to do this with all vehicles (e.g., M20 nerf-buffs) but only the Luchs changes managed to survive scope (M15 did get slightly bit cheaper).

Given how broken JU87 skillplanes are, I think you are playing with your luck if you don't have an AAHT out by the lategame.

Though, again, this is something that will have to be determined by 1v1 limitations alone. 4v4 will have to deal with the outcome of this. As long as the late-game is remotely balanced, there is always something to keep players in the match, and that's what matters the most.

Of all your suggestions, this has to be the worst. That is saying something.

Why ? Can you explain ?

I find this game in great need of it.

Given how broken JU87 skillplanes are,

WHat? Where I play it is so rare that anyone uses Ju87.

90% Jagd and Ele

Even Tiger is rare, Axis save only for those 2, sometime I see Pz4, more freq StuG

All mediums can escape from Ju87, Axis doesn't have cashes 80% of the time.

ehh I don't care THat was just some thoughts

WHat? Where I play it is so rare that anyone uses Ju87.

90% Jagd and Ele

Even Tiger is rare, Axis save only for those 2, sometime I see Pz4, more freq StuG

All mediums can escape from Ju87, Axis doesn't have cashes 80% of the time.

ehh I don't care THat was just some thoughts

Ah, you have to use ju-87. It is really broken.
It is best used when the enemy tries to dive your tanks.

This is now going off-topic as this is heavily-tied to 1v1, and the long-term viability of tiers.

As long as USF gets free officers (which means an extra squad out when it really matters), and their vehicles are supposed to have good shock value (even stronger early game), their vehicles cannot be cheap. Having vehicles affordable for the late-game means that Lieutenant is no longer the "MG tier" and Captain is the "Low-risk" tier.

We tried to do this with all vehicles (e.g., M20 nerf-buffs) but only the Luchs changes managed to survive scope (M15 did get slightly bit cheaper).

Given how broken JU87 skillplanes are, I think you are playing with your luck if you don't have an AAHT out by the lategame.

Though, again, this is something that will have to be determined by 1v1 limitations alone. 4v4 will have to deal with the outcome of this. As long as the late-game is remotely balanced, there is always something to keep players in the match, and that's what matters the most.

You might want to give usf some early at options do deal with kubel spam. You can easily bully usf off of fuel points with 2 kubels in maps like steppes. This strategy, when successful, has a snowballing effect for okw. If someone is brainlessly spamming one unit and beating you, something is wrong with counter play.

So you want to fix usf's late game? How to you propose you do that?

You might want to give usf some early at options do deal with kubel spam. You can easily bully usf off of fuel points with 2 kubels in maps like steppes. This strategy, when successful, has a snowballing effect for okw. If someone is brainlessly spamming one unit and beating you, something is wrong with counter play.

So you want to fix usf's late game? How to you propose you do that?

Kubel spam in 4v4? You mean to tell me you don't have a single ally to build an m3 or infantry carriers from the British? That's on you and your team not having communication, synergy, and strat adjustment.

Let this be an example on problems of 4v4 persons commenting on balance. If you and your team go 4 USF then that's completely on you. So it's safe to assume your playing random, knowing that a skilled AT team can counter kubel spam easy.. smh..

What is the reason that we see balance focus on a two tier priority level (1v1 followed by other modes). I have played lots of RTS games over several decades and never seen an approach to balance like that.

I am genuinely curious why this game is treated different? Before anyone says it, asymmetry is not a good excuse. Think games like Generals which are even more asymmetrical than this one.

@intelligence209
Your assumptions are wrong. I do not play with randoms. Having this strategy used against you is why we do not go 2 usf. I would like to hear what Mr.Smith has to say.