Teamgame dominant meta

If the IL2 strafe is bugged, I would not be surprised if the usf its, because sometimes it fails, although I do not know if it will be the same.

During the battle of Ortona, The German used a demo charge in a rigged building to wipe a Canadian's command squad, but the next day the Canadian got their revenge by infiltrating a German's command building and also used a demo to wipe it.


«The Battle of Ortona (20–28 December 1943)[1] was a battle fought between 2 battalions of elite German Fallschirmjäger (paratroops) from the German 1st Parachute Division under Generalleutnant Richard Heidrich, and assaulting Canadian troops from the Canadian 1st Infantry Division under Major General Chris Vokes,» -Wikipedia

In that case the Battle for Castle Itter proves that the bug of a mixed axis/allied faction team is really a feature.

While we are at OP strats, how about them Soviet urban HQ's? In team games on urban maps it's gg as soon as they start using these.

Aura buffs are problematic in general as they can break many core mechanics - hard enough to figure out/moderate how they may change balance in one faction - apply the buffs to a range of units from another faction and its even worse. Besides which, that Panther is not part of the command structure of the team mates company!

Then should forward hq buff be removed too?

Then should forward hq buff be removed too?

I think so though the commander is gimmicky. I'd rather that the aura buffs for team mates was disabled and you can only make hq in captured territory (and stops working when decapped) BUT the commander get some slightly better other options and/or improve m42

Also hq rarely reaches /synergises with vehicles where I feel the biggest issues occur. narrow streets etc.

The ultimate team game dominant meta is to work as a team. This is what truly wins games and must be nerfed.

The ultimate team game dominant meta is to work as a team. This is what truly wins games and must be nerfed.

Well, IIRC AT matches were separate from random matches in vCoH...

God splitting AT and random team games would obliterate the playerbase.

Well, IIRC AT matches were separate from random matches in vCoH...

God splitting AT and random team games would obliterate the playerbase.

The second part of my comment was sarcasm. I agree we can't split up AT and random

I know it's my first post, but I've been playing since the original CoH, just never got into the forum community before.

Just wanted to register my extreme opposition to nerfing the Jagdtiger's damage. All appreciation to the balance team, but I think it shows a misunderstanding of their use.

I play almost exclusively OKW, and in original CoH, I played almost exclusively Panzer Elite. Within OKW, 90% of my play is with Breakthrough Doctrine in 2v2 or higher, usually 4v4. Yes, this makes me a Jagdtiger fanboy, but it has also given me quite a bit of direct experience with their strengths and weaknesses.

I respectfully question whether the balance team has ever watched a 4v4 match where 3-4 allied players sell out on medium/heavy tanks. Watching the majority of 4 players' popcap in tanks come rolling out of the fog of war on Steppes or Lorch Assault is utterly terrifying. This is especially the case when the Allies are smart and diversified: very tough Brit tanks and Soviet heavies come up the middle to absorb the critical first wave of incoming AT fire. American Jacksons and Soviet T-34s flank to hit side armour, and park themselves behind superheavies to cut off retreat (superheavies rotate so slowly that once their direct reverse is cut off, they're effectively immobilized). Fireflies launch Tulip rockets to stun tanks, further preventing retreat.

I'm not suggesting any of that is OP. It's fine: sometimes it's effective, sometimes not, depending on how good everybody's micro is. But what keeps it fair is the ability of tanks like the Jagdtiger, wisely positioned and properly supported with units that give them sight range, to properly damage the British tanks/Soviet heavies attacking head-on and/or clip Allied mediums coming around the flank.

With the Jagdtiger on the field, Allied commanders have to be cautious with their tanks, yes. But I also have to be cautious with a tank I waited 15 CP to get, required me to float 720 MP and 280 FU in the meantime, which is worth three of theirs and which is occupying 25% of my popcap. I have to watch for infantry blobs with bazookas and snares, I have to watch for routes Jacksons and T-34s can take through the fog of war to hit me from the side, I have to be ultracautious not to overextend the Jagdtiger because that's a death sentence, and all of that keeps it in check.

Competent Allied 4v4 commanders regularly destroy my Jagdtiger, and often before it's paid for itself (it takes awhile to destroy 280 Fuel in enemy vehicles). They see it, they keep an eye on its location, they don't do foolish things like engage it head-on with only one or two medium tanks, they lure it forward or wait for me to get aggressive, flank it, stun it, cut off its retreat and murder it. If I don't get aggressive they take their tanks elsewhere and its impact is limited. Incompetent Allied commanders or those who haven't fought the JT much make foolish mistakes and get punished, like I did when I first had to deal with multiple Katyushas/land mattresses or the Brit combo of a mortar emplacement, a machine gun and a Bofors. It's balanced.

Does it kill most vetted medium tanks in two shots? Sure does. But medium tank destroyers kill vetted Pumas and Luchs in two shots as well. It's the circle of life.

If you nerf the Jagdtiger, there's a chain of consequences that I don't think is fully appreciated here: First, 4v4 Allied tank spam becomes unreasonably hard to deal with. Remember: we're talking as much as 300 pop cap worth of tanks (75% of four players), all highly mobile and the vast majority turreted.

Second, I doubt whether the proposed cost reductions will properly compensate for the nerf. Nobody cares about the barrage ability or at what vet level it's received. If you're using your JT to attack infantry for any reason, you've screwed up: its one job is to kill vehicles. If I wanted something that does AI too, I'd build a King Tiger. Its pop cap would have to be reduced to allow for at least one additional Jagdpanzer to be built, it should no longer require 15 CP (which is accrued after about 25 minutes: how many games are already effectively decided at the 25 minute mark?), and it should no longer cost as much as a King Tiger, which is the same price, available as much as ten critical minutes earlier, and acknowledged by all to be useful in all circumstances and game modes.

Third, think of what this does to the Breakthrough doctrine. The 12 CP sector artillery is already expensive and amazingly inaccurate: it rarely kills or seriously damages anything - it's mostly useful for the smoke that pops at the end - and the sturm officer is meh. The whole doctrine builds up to the synergy of vetted panzerfusiliers spotting for the Jagdtiger with their sight range and parachute flares, and skirmishing for and quickly decapping contested VPs and fuel points. Now it builds up to...what? A superheavy that'll increasingly get swapped out for a King Tiger.

There are some units or abilities that only make a big impact 1v1, and some that for whatever reason, synergy with other factions or scale of combat, are only useful or especially useful 4v4. That's fine, that's part of the beauty of a game with five factions and what, 50 commanders total? The Jagdtiger isn't broke. For the love of God, don't try to fix it.

TL;DR: OKW only has about nine commanders, and most of them are uninspiring and/or useless. Don't break one of the few that is commonly useful and - dare I say it - fun in big games because rookies try to duel Jagdtigers head-on with SU-85s and Shermans.

I play almost exclusively OKW, and in original CoH, I played almost exclusively Panzer Elite. Within OKW, 90% of my play is with Breakthrough Doctrine in 2v2 or higher, usually 4v4.

I I waited 15 CP to get, required me to float 720 MP and 280 FU in the meantime.

I know how ppl like you play 4 vs 4

put FRP in the middle of the map

Put Shwerer in the middle of the map

Run back and forth with you blob of Volks and Fusi till 15 CP

If you could stail to it 80% you win.


I don't care about Jgt

Its FRP and Fusi popcap=6


Remove FRP , change popcap of FUsi

You won't be able to stall till Jgd anymore.

Of coz Pz4 and Panther need tune down but not the first ones.

I know how ppl like you play 4 vs 4

put FRP in the middle of the map

Put Shwerer in the middle of the map

Run back and forth with you blob of Volks and Fusi till 15 CP

If you could stail to it 80% you win.


I don't care about Jgt

Its FRP and Fusi popcap=6


Remove FRP , change popcap of FUsi

You won't be able to stall till Jgd anymore.

Of coz Pz4 and Panther need tune down but not the first ones.

You're right about some things and wrong about others.

I put my FRP at most 1/4 of the way up the map, otherwise the enemy focuses it down with artillery, sometimes with my poor half-dead units clustered tightly outside it. I often put my flak HQ even further back, because Allies love to fuck it up given the opportunity, it's not that resilient once tanks and field artillery are the norm, and it's a painfully expensive rebuild. I don't know how you could see an OKW med truck and flak truck built in the middle of the map as anything but a delightful gift.

Sure, raise panzerfusiliers to 7 popcap. Is this terribly controversial? I can't remember the last time I saw more than four at once, and it's a rare blessing to be so tight to max popcap that tossing on another 4 popcap is a problem. To be honest I don't like running more than three, because then the newer ones siphon off experience and keep the older ones from getting to five star vet. Genuinely curious: what's the most you've ever seen on the field at one time?

You're right that there's a period of uncomfortable middle-game stalling, maybe 10 minutes, when I'm waiting on the JT. It can't really be any other way when saving for a unit that requires 280 fuel - that amount of fuel won't ever accrue if I'm building a steady stream of Pumas and P4s, a JT isn't a useful unit if I can't reliably get it out in under 30 minutes, and I also have to keep the popcap artificially low in advance - it's a terrible waste to send vetted units to their death to make room for your crown jewel.

To be clear, I use the word stalling to describe a situation where the enemy has teched to T4 and I'm fighting tanks with raketens and schrecks - depending on how many tanks the opponents rush and how well my teammates prep their AT, it can get ugly. But to be fair to me, I still have to be aggressive and deal out plenty of damage during that time - I need to keep that CP counter spinning to make it hit 15 in a reasonable time frame (about 25 minutes is right, 30 is often too late), I need to keep the VP situation at least competitive, and I need my infantry to rack up vet so they roll rifle blobs and not the other way around.

If mods are listening to my plaintive cries, this illustration of the delicate balance that is saving for a JT is another great reason not to nerf.

P.S. You're being unreasonably reductionist and dismissive when you reduce it to "he ran around with a panzerfus/volk blob." You could describe most American players as "ran around with a rifle blob, ran around with a medium tank blob, fired off a few mortars and howitzers." You could describe most Brit players as "garrisoned a few machine guns, built some Bofors and mortar pits, ran around with a bunch of durable tanks". It would equally fail to capture the nuances and the tactical skill those factions require to play.

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I don't know if people in this thread noticed, but I immediately read this text in Trump's voice after 2-3 sentences. Well done .

I don't know if people in this thread noticed, but I immediately read this text in Trump's voice after 2-3 sentences. Well done .

Oh my God. Genius.

Oh my God. Genius.

We're gonna make Coh2 great again. It's gonna be hooj. We're gonna open up those balance forums bigly, folks. We're gonna open up those balance forums. We're gonna build a wall and keep all the wehraboos out and we're gonna nerf the hell out of the radical allied fanboys. We're gonna have so much winning, you're gonna get tired of winning. It's gonna be hooj folks.

I'm done now. He says "gonna" a lot.

We're gonna make Coh2 great again. It's gonna be hooj. We're gonna open up those balance forums bigly, folks. We're gonna open up those balance forums. We're gonna build a wall and keep all the wehraboos out and we're gonna nerf the hell out of the radical allied fanboys. We're gonna have so much winning, you're gonna get tired of winning. It's gonna be hooj folks.

I'm done now. He says "gonna" a lot.

The concept over OP Jagdtigers was created by and for Allies in order to make the Axis non-competitive.

current meta:

1. Forward Retreat Points
2. Arty - still favouring allies
3. JT, ELE, Sturm
4. emplcements

current meta:

1. Forward Retreat Points
2. Arty - still favouring allies
3. JT, ELE, Sturm
4. emplcements

You forgot to mention smth you literally see every game, Penals -> 120mm (sometimes Dshka) -> T34-85 -> Katy. Each unit itself is not op, but the combination of those is probably the strongest in the game...