Add in immediate cooldowns to the handheld nuclear bombs they call grenades and I think we're good to go.
Updated... and I present to you: The era of no-more-insta-nuke infiltration units
Infiltration units needs a change
20 Apr 2017, 04:12 AM
#41
Posts: 401
Updated... and I present to you: The era of no-more-insta-nuke infiltration units
20 Apr 2017, 06:10 AM
#42
Posts: 2066
Indeed
However, it can still work, with the upgrade package being 30 MU. I just had quite a throughout thought about how to make this idea works for all infiltration units:
This way, Infiltration units will act more like harashers, supply-line disruptors and when needed, support-weapon harasher when upgraded, rather than straight-up support-weapon killers cause in this case, he'll have to spend MU + wait for quite a while before he can use them for assault.
I like it!
Kappa
20 Apr 2017, 07:11 AM
#43
Posts: 851 | Subs: 1
*snip*
This way, Infiltration units will act more like harashers, supply-line disruptors and when needed, support-weapon harasher when upgraded, rather than straight-up support-weapon killers cause in this case, he'll have to spend MU + wait for quite a while before he can use them for assault.
Get real, 200mp for partisans?
100MU for STG for a faction already short on munitions?
What's the point in having stormtruppers then if they cannot storm, and need to wait for upgrade?
Same with commandos?
Your idea of nade cooldown is good. +1 on that.
PS:
I think you meant harasser; there is no sh in the English word
20 Apr 2017, 10:58 AM
#44
Posts: 401
Get real, 200mp for partisans?
Are you sure you want to spam 4-man squishy Partysan squads with bold-action rifles that required 80 MU to get their 4 PPShs back? Cause that's just straight up suicidal! (4-man Partysans with Mosins will be even weaker than Osttruppen, yet cost the same... are you sure you want to spam that?)
100MU for STG for a faction already short on munitions?
The cost of the StG package for Stormtroopers is literally the one on the live version right now. And to be honest, I think it's fine, consider the firepower it provides, that's why I take it as the standard.
Same with commandos?
Commandos' 4 Stens bring in the same amount of shock value compare to Stormtroopers' StG package (Except for closer range). That's why I think they should cost the same. This way, Commandos will behave similar to Stormtroopers on live version, which haven't got any complaints so far.
20 Apr 2017, 11:04 AM
#45
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
One could make Partisan cost more and be a 6 men squad that spawns with only 4 men and has to retreat to reinforce. That would balance the spawn and later use value.
20 Apr 2017, 14:00 PM
#46
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
Invissed two posts.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
20 Apr 2017, 14:12 PM
#47
Posts: 3053
One could make Partisan cost more and be a 6 men squad that spawns with only 4 men and has to retreat to reinforce. That would balance the spawn and later use value.
I like that idea since they're really just a cheese unit right now to killl one support team and run away and stop being useful, so removing the cheese factor makes them really bad.
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20 Apr 2017, 22:19 PM
#48
Posts: 911
And because it's the only good thing in this doctrine its ok to be OP.
What a logic.
And FYI, the bundle its very capable of killing all 6 members from the weapon teams (which only the SU have btw) but whatever.
Erm, yes? Lol. OP units are fine in doctrines as long as their are counterbalanced by that doctrines downsides. Like if one goes partisans, they shouldn't also have end game tanks.
Meanwhile landmatress doc gets, flankers on the toughest and cheapest engineer unit in the game, spawn anywhere commandos that have an .8 second satchel charge, and the landmatress itself
Oh and I'm pritty sure that commando nade does more damage, has less woe and has a shorter timer, so the abilities are defiantly notnequal
Imagine my playercard is here
20 Apr 2017, 22:57 PM
#49
Posts: 3053
Erm, yes? Lol. OP units are fine in doctrines as long as their are counterbalanced by that doctrines downsides. Like if one goes partisans, they shouldn't also have end game tanks.
Meanwhile landmatress doc gets, flankers on the toughest and cheapest engineer unit in the game, spawn anywhere commandos that have an .8 second satchel charge, and the landmatress itself
Oh and I'm pritty sure that commando nade does more damage, has less woe and has a shorter timer, so the abilities are defiantly notnequal
So that makes calliope ok right? Because 1919s, the quad, and the strafe all suck now. And arty cover in its current state is balanced due to that logic as well.
Commando nade and bundled nades are the same thing I think. Could someone check out the stats on that? I know they have the same fuse.
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20 Apr 2017, 23:40 PM
#50
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
So that makes calliope ok right? Because 1919s, the quad, and the strafe all suck now. And arty cover in its current state is balanced due to that logic as well.
Commando nade and bundled nades are the same thing I think. Could someone check out the stats on that? I know they have the same fuse.
Bundles and light gammons are clones of each other except for cost, and fuse.
- Commando light gammon bomb cost = 35 munitions
- Axis elite bundle grenade cost = 45 munitions
- Commando light gammon bomb fuse =
~1 sec1 sec
- Axis elite bundle grenade fuse =
~1.2 sec1.25 sec
Edit: Thanks to miragefla I was able to locate the fuse timer for both grenades and I've edited them to be exact.
Fun fact: Grenades apparently have a 0.25 damage modifier in mud. So the next time you play a large team game on "General Mud" the deep mud is actually pretty good against grenades, but you're probably better off just dodging the grenade.
20 Apr 2017, 23:48 PM
#51
Posts: 500
A huge part of gammon bombs is also that they come on commandos. Commandos can not only cloak much better than JP4 or Raketen could before their nerf, they also have higher dps than STG 44 Obersoldaten and also reinforce for 35mp which means they cost 280mp.
In other words, a classic example of a balanced british unit!
In other words, a classic example of a balanced british unit!
21 Apr 2017, 01:07 AM
#52
Posts: 283
This way, Commandos will behave similar to Stormtroopers on live version, which haven't got any complaints so far.
I wonder why nobody complained about them. Might it be possible that almost nobody ever uses them, because they offer nothing of value to the faction they are a part of? Hmmm, what a mysterious riddle we have here… kappa
21 Apr 2017, 01:10 AM
#53
Posts: 3053
I wonder why nobody complained about them. Might it be possible that almost nobody ever uses them, because they offer nothing of value to the faction they are a part of? Hmmm, what a mysterious riddle we have here… kappa
Actually, I find that they cover a lot of the brits' weaknesses really well. Garrison messing with you? No problem. Sneak a gammon bomb in. Mortar giving you trouble? Hold fire and hunt it down from camo, and even steal it afterwards. They're in some really good commanders too. Commandos are literally the only reason that brits don't absolutely have to build pits every single game.
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21 Apr 2017, 01:11 AM
#54
Posts: 3053
Bundles and light gammons are clones of each other except for cost, and fuse.
- Commando light gammon bomb cost = 35 munitions
- Axis elite bundle grenade cost = 45 munitions
- Commando light gammon bomb fuse = ~1 sec
- Axis elite bundle grenade fuse = ~1.2 sec
I couldn't actually find the exact fuse timers in the mod tools, so I'm just going off what it appears to be ingame. I know that the bundled has at least a 0.2 sec longer fuse. If a mod maker could show me where to find the fuse timer for grenades that'd be great.
Fun fact: Grenades apparently have a 0.25 damage modifier in mud. So the next time you play a large team game on "General Mud" the deep mud is actually pretty good against grenades, but you're probably better off just dodging the grenade.
Huh, guess I was wrong about the fuse then. I wouldn't mind seeing the costs standardized however. It would make more sense.
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21 Apr 2017, 01:26 AM
#55
Posts: 911
So that makes calliope ok right? Because 1919s, the quad, and the strafe all suck now. And arty cover in its current state is balanced due to that logic as well.
Commando nade and bundled nades are the same thing I think. Could someone check out the stats on that? I know they have the same fuse.
How do those 3 things suck? Sure you can't double 1919's but if you really want the dps, get a bar too.
And arty cover would be balanced, it does need a spot for its arty do do anything, luckally for it that commander has a perminant recon plane.
But also the commando made does like 200 or 350 damage, bundle nade does 120
Imagine my playercard is here
21 Apr 2017, 01:28 AM
#56
Posts: 2742
Technically rifles still can get 2 1919s. They just have to pick up one that's been dropped.
Unless I am mistaken on that?
Unless I am mistaken on that?
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
21 Apr 2017, 01:35 AM
#57
Posts: 401
I wonder why nobody complained about them. Might it be possible that almost nobody ever uses them, because they offer nothing of value to the faction they are a part of? Hmmm, what a mysterious riddle we have here… kappa
Probably because the design of Stormtroopers as Infiltration Units is actually balance and it's not a complete insta-nuke-your-support-weapon kind of unit: They infiltrate, they harass; if enemy don't relocate their support units, they will get wiped (Rather than Commandos and Fallschirmjagers where you don't even have time to relocate your support units... they just got god damn insta-wiped with nuke nades and extreme close-range DPS, which is just pure cheese!). My suggestions are to make them more balance similar to Stormtroopers, while adding the increase capping speed to highlight their role as infiltrators/supply-line disruptors, not nuking-your-sh*t-then-run kind of cheese.
P/s: Maybe just me, but if my suggestions actually work, I would want to see Stormtroopers' Medkits got replace with "Booby Traps" (Similar to JLI and Obers) to further highlight their disrupting role.
21 Apr 2017, 01:39 AM
#58
Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1
Technically rifles still can get 2 1919s. They just have to pick up one that's been dropped.
Unless I am mistaken on that?
Yeah you just need to lose a rifle squad for that, and have RNG on your side, also pick it up before the enemy.
Kappa.
21 Apr 2017, 01:41 AM
#59
Posts: 401
Actually, I find that they cover a lot of the brits' weaknesses really well. Garrison messing with you? No problem. Sneak a gammon bomb in. Mortar giving you trouble? Hold fire and hunt it down from camo, and even steal it afterwards. They're in some really good commanders too. Commandos are literally the only reason that brits don't absolutely have to build pits every single game.
Having problems with garrison due to the lack of counters (Smoke, non-doc flamers) does not justify the fact that you can use Infiltrating cheese. It's the faction design problems! (Both Brits and OKW have this problem... at least Brits get access to smoke through mortar pit, but OKW has literally none... Obers one doesn't count cause it's expensive as f*ck on a unit that also super expensive). And since it's faction design problem, it should be dealt with directly, not by giving them cheese then say we're done! That's just idiotic balance!
21 Apr 2017, 05:25 AM
#60
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
But also the commando made does like 200 or 350 damage, bundle nade does 120
When in doubt, don't pull info out of your ass.
http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=panzer_grenadier_bundled_stielgranate_mp
http://stat.coh2.hu/weapon.php?filename=tommy_gammon_bomb_medium
Both do 120dmg.
The hammer grenade/satchel does 200 but takes eons to explode.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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