Posts: 276
The T-34/76 is way more cost efficient
Posts: 1217
...The point is that you will have more T-34/76s for every T-34/85.
Posts: 73
Wtf? It's a damn 85mm. It can actually penetrate something. It also has more survivability than a 76 because of its improved armor(health?). And thanks to those two things, an 85 can reliably slug it out with other tanks while a 76 has no hope of doing so. The T34/85 is an actual useful medium tank, equivalent to a Cromwell or an Easy Eight. And the 85 does not need to flank to win its tank battles (obviously unless it's vs German heavies, in case which case EVERY Allied tank needs to flank to get any fighting chance whatsoever)
"cost efficient"? T34/76? Really? It cant pen shit, it cant kill anything unless it goes on a suicide flanking run, and (like the others have said) it actually has worse anti-inf than an 85. Hell the T34/76 is even more useless now because of the T70, formerly a frail infantry-wipe-machine, now turned into a normal light tank. Which means the T70 is now pretty much (an only slightly worse) T34/76 that you can get way earlier (and cheaper).
Posts: 578
I can't tell you how many times I've had 3-6 T34/76's go on one of these "suicide rushes" and take out Tigers, King Tigers, or even a small group of panthers with minimal losses. The other week I lost 2 Panthers (one vet 2, one Vet 1) to only four T34/76's due to me being surprised and the other player's outstanding micro. The sacrificial lamb would lead the attack and get behind my tanks preventing them from backing up with the others went to both sides of the panthers. I didn't even destroy a single one. One was an inch from death and another was severely damaged but both were able to retreat and repair.
I'm sure someone has a replay of this happening. It's happened to me quite a few times with minimal losses to Soviets.
It CAN go wrong. If they bumrush i this fashion in an area where your tanks are plus AT guns behind the tanks they're gonna have a very bad time. Or if the axis player sees it coming soon enough and kites the T34's in reverse.
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
4 T43's killing 2 Panthers is NOT the norm. It is an exceptional edge case that should only go to show the potential boundaries of the balance scenario, not stand as a baseline for comparison.
In other words, don't use the exception to try and prove the rule.
Posts: 578
It's' more of a case by case analysis. If the player reacts in time and begins to reverse move the panthers with no momentum loss on obstacles etc, T34/76s will have a real struggle to pen panthers. If they get on the rear though panthers have zero chance.
Posts: 276
I can't tell you how many times I've had 3-6 T34/76's go on one of these "suicide rushes" and take out Tigers, King Tigers, or even a small group of panthers with minimal losses. The other week I lost 2 Panthers (one vet 2, one Vet 1) to only four T34/76's due to me being surprised and the other player's outstanding micro. The sacrificial lamb would lead the attack and get behind my tanks preventing them from backing up with the others went to both sides of the panthers. I didn't even destroy a single one. One was an inch from death and another was severely damaged but both were able to retreat and repair.
Yes, that is exactly what I said in my post: T34/76s can only ever get kills in suicidal flanking attacks. Thanks for reinforcing my point i guess?
Posts: 414
Posts: 236
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Posts: 212
But the panther is a BAD tank destroyer, it has slow rate of fire and even worse accuracy. You need to stand still to hit anything with the panther but the panther hasnt got the range or selfspotting to be a good stationary tank destroyer and thats why the panther is gargabe. Yes it has good armor and speed but it has no offensive power at all and for its cost its simply not worth it.
Posts: 3053
It's' more of a case by case analysis. If the player reacts in time and begins to reverse move the panthers with no momentum loss on obstacles etc, T34/76s will have a real struggle to pen panthers. If they get on the rear though panthers have zero chance.
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Posts: 3053
It isn't garbage, but I do agree it isn't fitting its tank destroyer roll very well.
The moving accuracy seems to be a common problem for all German tanks but when you combine it with the Panthers slow reload rate it compounds things.
The panther is just under performing a little bit I think. Hopefully with the pending Comet changes it might not feel so bad.
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Posts: 73
Posts: 212
So what I gather from all of this discussion is:
The panther is a late game high-end tank destroyer with high cost and excellent mobility.
but it sucks at destroying tanks and if it's using it's high mobility it won't hit anything.
I've almost completely given up on Panthers. The Jagdpanzer seems to always be a much better choice or Stugs as Ost.
Posts: 1072
Posts: 2066
It's funny coming back to this game after 9 months and seeing the same issue and arguments all over again. Brings me back.
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
Posts: 1740
It's funny coming back to this game after 9 months and seeing the same issue and arguments all over again. Brings me back.
Posts: 221
The entire Ostheer faction makes no bloody sense.
Bunch of tanks that either don't damage infantry at all (a StuG with a mounted MG can stand right in front of an infantry unit for half a minute and not take out a single model) or very little, thus needing to be supported by infantry at all times, and...
...bunch of infantry that is drastically less durable than any other faction in the game both on a per-squad and a per-model basis, thus unable to reliably support armor, especially in the mid-late game.
The Panther is just one of the many absurd symptoms of this, alongside the unarmored armored car, the impossible munitions expenses (either upgrade Grenadiers/Pioneers with weapons to have any chance in direct firefights against other factions' basic unupgraded infantry, let alone upgraded, or use grenades/mines, but not both), and the instawipes (now seemingly more or less fixed via the model spacing adjustment).
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