OKW Scavenge values should be boosted

In order to compensate for their inability to build their own resource caches.

In team games especially, the team that builds the most amount of caches the fastest (without compromising too much to front line assets) has a much higher odds of winning or sustaining and replacing losses to take back the initiative.

Currently in team games, OKW is an outstanding compliment to the Wehrmacht. The Wehr's early MG's as well as resource caches really give OKW the boost to keep it from lagging behind the allies in bringing tech and armor to the field.

The most frustrating games I've ever played have been an all OKW team game (3v3, 4v4) vs literally any combination of allies. The worst matchups ever is all OKW vs all UKF. That is almost certain failure for the OKW player.


So, OKW is a "rush army" that is supposed to deal with lesser resources and weaker infantry in return for some of the best tanks and some of the best infantry if they can stay around until late game. To carry them into late game they can scavenge wrecks. Right now a wreck will only give you +5 fuel.

I'd like to see the modders and balancing people test out what would happen if OKW had these changes:

- Test +10 fuel from wrecks
- Test +15 Fuel from wrecks
- Test +15 and +10 munis from wrecks
- Test +20 Fuel from wrecks
- Test +30 fuel from wrecks

In addition, ambient or static wrecks on maps could be harvested in addition to fresh wrecks. This would tempt OKW players to put their pios in harms way to get extra resources and potentially remove enemy (or their own) green cover. Right now, while you scavenge you become extremely vulnerable to incoming fire. Pios die VERY fast if attacked while scavenging. That should not be changed. There should be risk to the reward. And by harvesting the static wrecks, I can see enterprising players trying to push into enemy territory at great risk to harvest wrecks and potentially losing squads that way. Currently, I rarely see any OKW player scavenging. There is just too little gain for even such a resource restricted army.

Keep in mind, this isn't just free resources. On most maps, wrecks are in highly contested areas if they are static. And if you create a wreck, you've invested in Rakwerfs or Schreks or some kind of early/mid game anti tank and will have to successfully create the wreck if you want to harvest it. You'll also have to send units into potentially dangerous zones to harvest the wrecks (hopefully) after the vehicle is destroyed.


If this change is made, it will have a very dynamic effect. Some maps are much more vehicle intensive than others. Some maps have much more static wrecks than others. And some urban maps are heavily focused on infantry and indirect fire in which there are hardly any wrecks at all.

What do you think?

Edit: this may be going too far, but as someone who enjoys the memoirs of WW2 vets I've read in many true accounts that in late war (1944 and onwards) gasoline for German tanks was so scarce at times that they would stop civilians and even SS officers or party dignitaries and drain their gasoline into their tanks to keep them going, citing that a running tank is going to do the war effort far more good than their Mercedes carting around a bunch of officers.

In the game world there are undestroyed civilian vehicles. Maybe if a pio scavenges one of these, it doesn't destroy the intact vehicle but rather drains it's gas tank for a small amount of fuel (like the +5 there currently is). It can only be done once by a single player. Again, it could put units into danger and for a small reward but could be an interesting and historic dynamic.

No brit salvage should just be on OKW level. OKW can literally salvage everything, including team weapons.

How about instead of boosting salvage OKW just get access to supply caches? I mean salvage is not unique anymore, both Soviets and UKF got it, and OKW doesn't have a unique resource system anymore, so apart from OKW's salvage not being doctrinal like the Allied ones, I don't see any reasonable reason why OKW should not be allowed to build resource caches.

But yes, the lack of an early T0 MG and the resource caches are the things that are most noticable in an all OKW team, I can definitely 100% agree with that.

My general opinions:

A) I'm on the opinion caches shouldn't give resources to teammates as it devalues territory control.

-This is one of the reasons that 2v2+ devolves into spam of vehicles and further shortens tactical infantry play.
-Since i know this would be controversial on randoms (rush to build caches for own sake), if the technology was there i would allowed for multiple caches to be built upon in the same point (subsequent caches would add +50% health)

B)With idea A been implemented, there won't be any need for OKW to also have caches.
What i would like seeing been implemented back is resource conversion with some tweaks.
Mechanised group get's an upgrade which lets it get back fuel/munition conversion. Instead of swapping fuel for muni or viceversa, it would drain mp for either resource.
Numbers are just for example value: upgrade cost 200mp and drains 20mp/min. Gives 1.5x the amount of resource of a cache.

C) OP ideas about scavenge.
-Returning scavenge of neutral vehicles and wrecks > REALLY BAD IDEA.
-Increasing value of scavenge. > Depends. I would increase vehicle value for mediums/heavies +10f/15f (TBH i don't know what are the current values and if they change depending on type of wreck) but leave it at +5 for lights. Support weapons should give munitions instead of fuel.

The real power of scavenge is not the resources you get, but the potential to deny abandoned support weapons.

Give OKW an ability to insta destroy caches after some setup time.

Give OKW caches. Remove standard scavenge from infantry. Replace thorough scavenge with stock scavenge on doctrines.

Doctrinal caches for OKW

brit and sov salavage is very expensive... and sov salvage is in a horrible commander. brits have to use pop cap mp and doctrine to use there salvage. its bad enough they dont have any extra mp to use most of the time. brits salvage is easy to counter once u see the salvage engineers. same with the soviet one. and plus axis salvage is on all infantry running around from start of game , no cost, no extra pop cap, no munitions..... its totally free for axis from start to finish of the game. there should be no changes to salvage values. theres things that both sides get that the other side dont. just to many ppl talking about nerfs to allies...or buffing axis. are u having trouble playing vs those commanders? its probably in a team game just like allies have trouble vs almost every heavy tank in team games... salvage is a bonus for okw. they had salvage when they had slow resources. and they still got salvage now that they have normal resources.. see where im going?

Id say its balanced the way it is, honestly they shouldn't get scavenge at all let alone a buff. Its common sense to just give them caches since their whole "resource starved faction" is reverted.

Game balance isn't really influenced by caches either spending 200 mp is almost a full squad. most of the time it's not even worth it. It's just a luxury. even in team games it should be. But free scavenging is pretty good you cant complain about it.

yeah give them caches and replace the standard scavenege with doctrinal scavenge

UKF and SOV salvage is overpowered as hell. What needs to be done is nerfing allied salvage and then reducing OKW fuel costs.

Also note how OKW can not have caches because of salvage but the same doesnt apply to Soviets and UK Kappa

UKF and SOV salvage is overpowered as hell. What needs to be done is nerfing allied salvage and then reducing OKW fuel costs.

Also note how OKW can not have caches because of salvage but the same doesnt apply to Soviets and UK Kappa

Hmm they are doctrinal, one requires 100muni and the other is 4CP 450mp special snowflake UK?

Hmm they are doctrinal, one requires 100muni and the other is 4CP 450mp special snowflake UK?

Aha. And? OKW also has a doctrinal improved scavenge but that's nowhere near UKF and Sov scavenge

SOV scavenge got more T-34 and other
UKF scavenge got more comet and Arty cover

but problem how you find wrecks some player when see scavenge sapper or Con PTRS
their try break up the wrecks if possible
some team play game SOV Tank hunter can comeback because enemy move tank to deep in my area
and get wrecks
and but it high reward lot of MP some mun and fuel

Aha. And? OKW also has a doctrinal improved scavenge but that's nowhere near UKF and Sov scavenge

Do you have to pay resources and sacrifice AI in order to be able to salvage or scavenge is FREE, part of the root abilities of the unit?

Salvage values of outliers units (Ex: ambulance) should be adjusted. Scavenge values could be adjusted as well after OKW 100% resource income (to make it simple, leave it as it is for support/light vehicles, increase to 10 for mediums, 20 for heavies).

Now, if you want to have salvage returns, then you should also have to pay for them. I don't think SP has any more space to add things, so i wouldn't mind seeing a 100muni upgrade on Volks IF Scavenge was not already prime meta commander.
Once Party cover is properly nerfed, if no rework of the other abilities is done, you won't see any more salvage going around anymore (Dank Hunter aren't been used).

Give someone an inch and they'll take a mile.

Do you have to pay resources and sacrifice AI in order to be able to salvage or scavenge is FREE, part of the root abilities of the unit?

Salvage values of outliers units (Ex: ambulance) should be adjusted. Scavenge values could be adjusted as well after OKW 100% resource income (to make it simple, leave it as it is for support/light vehicles, increase to 10 for mediums, 20 for heavies).

Now, if you want to have salvage returns, then you should also have to pay for them. I don't think SP has any more space to add things, so i wouldn't mind seeing a 100muni upgrade on Volks IF Scavenge was not already prime meta commander.
Once Party cover is properly nerfed, if no rework of the other abilities is done, you won't see any more salvage going around anymore (Dank Hunter aren't been used).

I absolutely agree, we should nerf OKW by switching the salvage of the Scavenge commander with that of UKF.

I absolutely agree, we should nerf OKW by switching the salvage of the Scavenge commander with that of UKF.

Or we could nerf both and make them use the 100muni version of SU

I have no comment on the individual resource amounts from salvaging. However, I would like to see changes to the mechanics.

It's too fast, first of all. It took a pretty good while to salvage in coh1 (you did get more out of it though).

You should actually have to secure the area for it to even be successful. People do it while in battle, because it's so damned fast. Each time a salvage team member dies, it should be restarting that progress bar.