The American BAR

Stop whining and learn to use machine guns. If anything, ostheer is way better off than okw, since they normally need two mg34s for crowd control.

lol whining. Okay Marty

I dunno, my own testing attempt just had me feel anything past mid-range between the two squads is super RNG.

Depends on cover. Long range battles last for minutes, whereas open cover and close range fights are over in seconds. (I'm assuming you mean 'past' you mean 'further out'.) The thing is in long range fights with cover, squads drop to 2 or 3 entities pretty quickly, which slows the fight down. Without damage reduction from green cover (which volks can build!) volks face much worse RNG odds.

And though long range tends to favor Volks, there's a high degree of RNG in just about all infantry combat. There's always this sort of 10-20% chance of an upset I find. That's about as reliable as you get before vet and weapon upgrades.

Something needs to be done to control/deter USF blobbing. To make it more punishable or to make it not as rewarding. To make strategic play more viable. In this case, having the same weapon that is effective yes, not as effective on the move but as effective while static is a first step in my opinion.

Well, Riflemen's Garands have a moving accuracy multiplier of 0.6. Volks, Grens, Cons, Penals, all have a multiplier of 0.5. This isn't really too much of a problem because they only deal 8 damage, to Volks 12 and Grens 16.

BARs have a multiplier of 0.7. This is actually kind of middle of the road as far as weapons like Thompsons, PPsHs, and StGs are concerned. (I mean, LMGs have a moving accuracy multiplier of 0.75, so keep that in mind when using Obers.)

Rifles got to close the distance. They're designed to close.

Generally speaking I would classify
0-10 close
10-20 mid
20-35 far

The performance you describe is as expected especially in cover. Bolt action rifles are supposed to be better than semi auto (carbine) in far and heavy cover.

I think it's at range 16 that rifles garands and penals SVTs consider 'mid', whereas the volks Kar98k its 25. Most weapons don't achieve their 'close range' accuracy until there is 0 range. For the SVT its a range of 6 and for Garands its 3. It's minimal, but it affects the accuracy curve.

So it's in between 25 and 16 meters that Volks pretty much lose their advantage to Rifles. And at 10 meters the benefits of cover are mitigated, which quickly swings the balance of power towards the more rapid firing weapon.

Riflemen and Volk DPS are surprisingly the same when they both engage max range(vet 0 and no upgrades), Riflemen only stomp Volks if they're within hugging distance of each other. So it depends on positioning and micro, when Rifles close in to Volks standing still, dropping just 1 Rifle model is enough to send Rifles packing.

Once 1 BAR for each squad hit the field however, the Rifles combined with vet will drive off STG Volks 1v1 unless Volks manage to hit vet 5 where they're equal to them. Even then two BARs with vet 3 still makes Volks a joke.

For blob counters, well maybe getting 2 MG's as OST is a good start since USF mortar is no longer drone strike HQ. Or git gud with Snipers since that's my main way of dealing with them. Vet 3 doesn't mean anything if Sniper can pick off models one by one.

This thread serves zero purpose with next patch due any time.

Seriously, did you give any thought whatsoever before making this post, because everything in this post is meaningless irrelevant fantasising.


Oh, and this...

Sigh

Show Spoiler

Only issue I have with BARs is that they boost long-range DPS, though it's not the only WFA weapon that's an upgrade at all ranges.

terrible thread by an admitted axis fanboy with 15 games in total

So, WBP will Tone down rifles RA, no more double lmgs, and pgrens can already deal with double BAR rifle without use muni for upgrades, after WBP rifles will be fine. Usf infantry anyway must be a little bit better than axis infantry.

I think it's at range 16 that rifles garands and penals SVTs consider 'mid', whereas the volks Kar98k its 25. Most weapons don't achieve their 'close range' accuracy until there is 0 range. For the SVT its a range of 6 and for Garands its 3. It's minimal, but it affects the accuracy curve.

So it's in between 25 and 16 meters that Volks pretty much lose their advantage to Rifles. And at 10 meters the benefits of cover are mitigated, which quickly swings the balance of power towards the more rapid firing weapon.

Allot of weapon have different close mid far ranges but I was not talking about that (your close mid far ranges for those weapon are correct).

What I was saying was that would describe a mid fight one that takes place from 20-10 regardless of weapons involved and so on. Thus it seemed strange to me when you claimed that VG beat riflemen at a mid fight.

The concept of rifles is to be on the move. Rifles always need to close with thier enemy to win an engagement. Yes, there are some cases when you mustnt do that (like early okw engis) but anyway it is the rule. Rifles cant stand still and fight on long ranges, cus they will be easily wiped by grens, volks and others cus they are long range infantry. Rifles always push, flank and stay on the move. Thats why bar is a very mobile weapon. Of course we have 30 cal but we all know its op and brake the concept of usf rifles. Making bar a stable weapon will brake rifles concept. They will become useless because garants are effective at close range and bar will be like typical lmg effective at long range.

Horseshit. Watch one of Thanatos or Theodosius's (sp?) replays. See them rack up 30-40 kills with and Ostwind or 50+ with a Panzerwerfer.

We are talking about average Coh2 games here. You would expect the best players to know how to use your units, but most players are not able to do so. Proving your point that a unit is not too weak by saying "oh look, some of the best players ingame can use them" does not mean that they are in a good place.

We are talking about average Coh2 games here. You would expect the best players to know how to use your units, but most players are not able to do so. Proving your point that a unit is not too weak by saying "oh look, some of the best players ingame can use them" does not mean that they are in a good place.

Are you expecting game to adapt to the players? It always should be the other way round. Why? Becouse when majority learn to use some counter this will make the game imballanced. And you don't know if there is going to be anybody to patch it at that time.

The game should be always ballanced taking into consideration good usage of units and strategies. Simply becouse the players are much more adaptable than the game. Players will continue to adapt in this game as long as servers are on. And the patches, whell, the upcoming one may be one of the last.

Simply put: if you know some unit has valid counters, don't ask to nerf it, even if you can't execute the counter yet, not to reduce strategic diversity in the game. Instead - learn to use the counter.

how about making a dedicated anti infantry units like stormtroppers,obers and falls actually somewhat good at their job mainly be increasing their damage....because standard infantry easily mop them...also maybe rework stormtroopers and falls from ground up...obers just need damage increase from 6 to 8...and vet 4 suppression replaced with faster firing rate

how about making a dedicated anti infantry units like stormtroppers,obers and falls actually somewhat good at their job mainly be increasing their damage....because standard infantry easily mop them...also maybe rework stormtroopers and falls from ground up...obers just need damage increase from 6 to 8...and vet 4 suppression replaced with faster firing rate

They are all good except faljs who are too expensive and weak. Faljs like glass weapon but 440 is too much for them.

Most units do not need more DPS buff, there many units (mostly WFA)that need DPS nerfs.

The longer the fight the more tactical they are and less RNG.

Problem with falls and Obers are the fact that they are 4 man squads.

We live in a world where AOE weapons are plentiful

Sherman/T34.76/85/Crushwell/Comet/120mm/Landmattress/MTemplacement/Calliope/USF.MT/ Katusha (and soon to be nerfed) Stewart/T70/(whatever the British light tank is)

For what i mentioned above all those have the capability of wiping a ober/falls squad instantly and it happens quite too often. Coh2 isn't all about fire power it's more about surviving RNG AOE hits. I never liked the concept of 4 man squads, even more so when the enemy has rocket artillery and AOE weapons like there is no tomorrow.

Asking for DPS increase when the problem is identified as dying to explosive weapon makes little sense.

To solve the weakness of dying to explosive weapons one could lower the AOE/Damage of these weapon or introduce some damage reduction for damage coming from explosive weapons for 4 men squads.

Asking for DPS increase when the problem is identified as dying to explosive weapon makes little sense.

To solve the weakness of dying to explosive weapons one could lower the AOE/Damage of these weapon or introduce some damage reduction for damage coming from explosive weapons for 4 men squads.

Reduce explosion damage !!! that is what all 4-men squad need !!!

Well with the new patch coming out focusing on squad formations, that is an indirect nerf to AOE weapons, so we'll just have to wait and see

what usf supposed to do without bar blobs ?Pls tell me guys becouse people complain about usf blobs but this is all that usf got i guess, and even u dont want to blob u always get that extra unit with new tier but its ok when u lost evrything because stuka sometimes is bugged and u hear nothing before nuke

what usf supposed to do without bar blobs ?Pls tell me guys becouse people complain about usf blobs but this is all that usf got i guess, and even u dont want to blob u always get that extra unit with new tier but its ok when u lost evrything because stuka sometimes is bugged and u hear nothing before nuke

Needless to say your a blubber who gets occasionally punished by a well placed Stuka. Hmmmm