Is it possible to fix maxim spam before GCS?

i think the best solution to people be pinned constantly by hmgs is to make the suppression time slower so that people can use infantry more without spamming hmg and be able to move easier while being shot by them. thats if there will be some kind of nerf. i dont have the problem with the way it is now. for example a wehr player can rifle nade maxims while a soviet player cant do that to an mg42 becuase they have less range on grenades.

I respectfully disagree because it negates the entire role of infantry as the backbone of any army. Why would I ever buy a conscript squad with 6 con models when I can buy a maxim for 20 manpower more which can suppress and comes with 5 of those 6 conscripts. Yes AT nades, oorah, Molotovs LUL. But the early engagments decide who will get the 1st light vehicle. This meta will be nerfed soon with WBP but we'll see how it plays out.

Eh, I wouldn't quite say that. They mostly even out with Penals once they get StGs.

Penals only lose if they move around and try to charge the StG Volks. If they stop moving around they beat the StG Volks at range pretty consistently with 2-4 models left if the Volks fights to the death. At point blank range, with one getting the drop on the other, Penals v StG Volks is more of a coin flip. StG Volks seem to perform best at mid range.

But really, whichever squad has to start moving, loses. Volks need to be vet 5 and the Penals under vet 2 to win consistently. Otherwise Volks lose pretty decisively, or win by a razor thin margin.

As you stated, with STG´s they are equal in combat, but volks cost less to reinforce and are cheaper to produce, not saying you need 160mp structure to start geting them.

This means they beat them cost efficiently

players who use maxims well with good micro like myself should not be punished with a nerf for being good with the units.

Your kidding right. Fastest set up, sprint ability, six men, instant suppression. If you consider a-moving to be micro, well I got news for you. Maxim spam is a giant blight on the game and the sooner it is eradicated the better.

neither should an mg42 spammer for having a wider arc be nerfed.

MG42 is balanced. Has been for ages. No one is calling for it to be nerfed except ignorant biased allied fanboys.

i dont see maxim spam any differently than mg42 spam. you can have the huge arc of mg42 with 4 men or the narrower arc of the maxim with 6. yes i know maxims unpack fast but mg42 is not that slow either if you have the bulletin which affects it.

Like skemshead already mentioned above: unfortunately your argument doesnt work because usually maxims win EVERY engagement vs MG42, no matter if the maxim is a-moving into a already set up MG42 (not joking) or if both players use the a-moving strat.

The only 1:1 engagement that a MG42 will definitely win is if it's garrisoned while the maxim is not, or if the MG42 uses its incendiary rounds

Like skemshead already mentioned above: unfortunately your argument doesnt work because usually maxims win EVERY engagement vs MG42, no matter if the maxim is a-moving into a already set up MG42 (not joking) or if both players use the a-moving strat.

The only 1:1 engagement that a MG42 will definitely win is if it's garrisoned while the maxim is not, or if the MG42 uses its incendiary rounds

Or if it uses camo Still it's true that maxims usually win, not that it's a bad thing, mg42s are not ment as a counter to maxims.

I respectfully disagree because it negates the entire role of infantry as the backbone of any army. Why would I ever buy a conscript squad with 6 con models when I can buy a maxim for 20 manpower more which can suppress and comes with 5 of those 6 conscripts. Yes AT nades, oorah, Molotovs LUL. But the early engagments decide who will get the 1st light vehicle. This meta will be nerfed soon with WBP but we'll see how it plays out.

Maxim crew members are by no means equal to conscripts. They have horrible dps and RA debuff. Not to mention the death loop and packed formation. You are right though - the meta is going to shift and we are not sure what is the direction. Possibly most of the thigs that are being said here and are true right now, are not going to be true soon. Maybe the thread can be even considered pointless.

As you stated, with STG´s they are equal in combat, but volks cost less to reinforce and are cheaper to produce, not saying you need 160mp structure to start geting them.

This means they beat them cost efficiently

It means the matchup becomes more cost efficient, but it doesn't mean they beat them. Also, those StGs require a tech truck set up to be able to spend munis for. Penals have plenty of chances to fight them without the upgrade.

No one should ever expect their StG volks to 'beat' Penals in any engagement unless they have a clear advantage, such as superior cover or vet, or the Penals are running around in open cover.

But that really applies to most any infantry engagement.

It means the matchup becomes more cost efficient, but it doesn't mean they beat them. Also, those StGs require a tech truck set up to be able to spend munis for. Penals have plenty of chances to fight them without the upgrade.

No one should ever expect their StG volks to 'beat' Penals in any engagement unless they have a clear advantage, such as superior cover or vet, or the Penals are running around in open cover.

But that really applies to most any infantry engagement.

Definition of beating up unit cost efficiently is that you will win the fight wit less loses resource wise, when reasource numbers are equal.

For example shermans beat lone kingtiger cost efficiently, because they cost 110 fuel and kt cost 280

I can undestand this histeria, if you whanna nerf maxim okey, but buff him range or somthing another, coz set up time, reinforce or another just kill the unit, dont forget that only maxim dont have retreut bug with 1 model that die no teleport like in another. Dont need make double nerfs like thay do in WBP with guards.I am fine to make even 4 crew, but buff it another level HMG.

Look at 3h 42m

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129771698

Look at 3h 42m

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129771698

Oh, you mean -that- kind of thing.

In live version, games vs maxim spammers end if the enemy managed to hold enough to get a T-70 out. This kind of strategy should be a lot more difficult to pull off in WBP.

Nobody has submitted any maxim-spam-related replays that work in WBP, thus, I can't say for sure.

Spam strats are, really the lowest common denominator in this game. Thus, it would be nice to find a solution for maxims that prevents spammability, while not screwing T2 combined arms play too much.

In live version, games vs maxim spammers end if the enemy managed to hold enough to get a T-70 out. This kind of strategy should be a lot more difficult to pull off in WBP.

Really? Because T70 received a nerf? Or did I miss that axis inf got anti-suppression buff and garrisoned inf no longer gets torn apart by the insane accurcacy + dps of maxims?

As Luvnest said in this vid: Maxims are perfect mainline inf, perfect anti garrison and win every engagement with least micro input, especially with cons AT nade, some guards and T70

Look at 3h 42m

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129771698

these are 2 maxims shooting at a half-dead mg42 in wooden building, what did you expect? Do you think maxim would live to fight another day in same situation against double mg42?

Look at 3h 42m

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129771698

Thats why people call him Scrubnest .
About that situation it was low heal and bad rng. And i dont defend it in live version, coz the problem are with synergy, its very good combo in maxim meta. But honest, we always talk in forums taht balance ostheer vs soviet are good and always we get histerya when some top/streamers lose vs maxim span with ostheer. But in many there games thay just make a big mistakes vs maxims and t-70 just end it or 3 t-70.
And one more its again double standarts, maybe all players who blaime some strats in repleys section, streams use maxim/penals spam too, so when you win with cancer its okey ? but when you lose its broken ? or what reason so abuse "broken" things ? for win ? enjoy this shit or what ?
If i am not mistake in Dane cast Zarok vs Zysven 2 kubels at front retreut 2 maxim with 2-3 models in squad. NExt time 2-3 kubel was close to kill maxim at house, 1 model save. So lets can i call kubel OP ?

Oh, you mean -that- kind of thing.

In live version, games vs maxim spammers end if the enemy managed to hold enough to get a T-70 out. This kind of strategy should be a lot more difficult to pull off in WBP.

Nobody has submitted any maxim-spam-related replays that work in WBP, thus, I can't say for sure.

Thank you for your correct, helpful and non cancerous attitude/comment. This summaries everything anyone should need to know at this point.

Oh, you mean -that- kind of thing.

In live version, games vs maxim spammers end if the enemy managed to hold enough to get a T-70 out. This kind of strategy should be a lot more difficult to pull off in WBP.

Partisans and rushing to a t34 now.

And t70 still beats 222 and luchs, so might still use it for that+support maxims.

I felt little impact from WBP on the maximspam.

these are 2 maxims shooting at a half-dead mg42 in wooden building, what did you expect? Do you think maxim would live to fight another day in same situation against double mg42?

Yeh ofc its usual that the MG42 lost the engagement, the ridiculous point is the speed of the loss. The first maxim just ran behind the truck at VP for green cover while being suppressed.. and would have most likely won the engagement alone. And tbh in a double MG42 vs garrisoned maxim engagement, I am really not sure if MG42 would win.

Again, you can beat any strat in 1v1, even maxim spam (though Kholodny is one of the more broken maps for maxim spam sadly) if you play with 0 mistakes and u have some RNG luck while your enemy is sloppy.

Wait, that's not even true. You need to pray that the maxims get rekt by nades and/or mortars and that your 251 flamer doesnt get roflstomped by AT partisans. Other strats vs maxims are usually never seen, cos in high level tier, you barely ever see that a maxim dies to small arms fire, because the durability + fast set-up time makes it win most of the a-moving engagaments.

But tbh then pls tell me why we even adjust the balance of anything in this game, since you also can beat comet spam + arty cover if you play without any mistakes

As people already mentioned, the maxim needs some sort of firepower advantage compared to MG42 since it has such a small arc of fire. Fine. The problem is a-moving with this unit. +This unit can react way too good on flanking attacks. Show Spoiler That's why set up time needs to be nerfed

But honest, we always talk in forums taht balance ostheer vs soviet are good and always we get histerya when some top/streamers lose vs maxim span with ostheer. But in many there games thay just make a big mistakes vs maxims and t-70 just end it or 3 t-70.
And one more its again double standarts, maybe all players who blaime some strats in repleys section, streams use maxim/penals spam too, so when you win with cancer its okey ? but when you lose its broken ? or what reason so abuse "broken" things ? for win ? enjoy this shit or what ?

Plot-twist: After that match he queued again into VonIvan, but this time Luv was sov and Ivan OH. Show Spoiler

Look at 3h 42m

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/129771698

I think this is a better example https://www.twitch.tv/videos/128229773 (01:36:39)

I think this is a better example https://www.twitch.tv/videos/128229773 (01:36:39)

True

Maybe its bug ?