Non Call-In Churchill: Most underused Brit tank

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2017, 11:27 AMMr.Smith

The first type of changes are subtle retouching kind of modifications that change little by themselves, but could, potentially form a useful aggregate when you combine them all together:
- Popcap from 18 to 16
- Smoke projector no longer bestows a speed penalty
- Smoke projector smoke also provides yellow cover to temper incoming suppression for models going stray
- Vet1 side-hatch guns no longer suffer from movement penalties (because they can't point forward)

If we wanted to go a bit further, I would change the penetration values of the Churchill:
- Increase hug-range penetration from 130 to 180. Penetration should remain identical for ranges 15+

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2017, 10:28 AMkitekaze

I would add further modification as below:
- Reduce churchill health by half (1400->700).
- Apply constant modifier of 0.5 damage reduction.

I have not tried this yet, but if the veterancy is truly based on lost health, then this helps churchill to stop being xp feeder.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2017, 09:13 AMTiger Baron

There is no point in the Churchill when it can be penetrated by anything and spends more time being repaired than fighting.

Until it's armor is buffed and HP nerfed only cheeky people and noobs will be using it.

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2017, 10:28 AMkitekaze

I would add further modification as below:
- Reduce churchill health by half (1400->700).
- Apply constant modifier of 0.5 damage reduction.

I have not tried this yet, but if the veterancy is truly based on lost health, then this helps churchill to stop being xp feeder.

Jump back to quoted post14 Mar 2017, 12:11 PMTrubbbel

I used it yesterday. I think it got maybe two shots off and then it was crushed from full health with okw arty ability. RIP little Cromwell.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2017, 11:27 AMMr.Smith

There's no way additional non-bug-related changes can be piggybacked on top of WBP. Especially ones that are out of scope.

Arguably, the reason why nobody goes for Churchills is because:
- Ostheer T3 is the way to go
- Comet is insanely OP and seal-clubs Ostheer T3
- 18-popcap Churchill get denied by 8-popcap Stugs

With respect to WBP, Churchills will benefit from the following bugfixes:
- Grenade ability (their main weapon, arguably) will launch reliably, 100% of the time
- Changes to AoE suppression means that you can actually use smoke projector to cover an infantry advance

IMO, there are two types of changes Churchills could be prone to receive.

The first type of changes are subtle retouching kind of modifications that change little by themselves, but could, potentially form a useful aggregate when you combine them all together:
- Popcap from 18 to 16
- Smoke projector no longer bestows a speed penalty
- Smoke projector smoke also provides yellow cover to temper incoming suppression for models going stray
- Vet1 side-hatch guns no longer suffer from movement penalties (because they can't point forward)

If we wanted to go a bit further, I would change the penetration values of the Churchill:
- Increase hug-range penetration from 130 to 180. Penetration should remain identical for ranges 15+

(the Churchill is almost as slow as the KT, which means all the affected tanks will have more than enough opportunity to keep their distance)

This would ensure that a Churchill cannot be perpetually ignored. You should keep away from the Churchill, which would mean you could use a Churchill as a real meatshield that blocks enemy tanks.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2017, 11:27 AMMr.Smith

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Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2017, 06:14 AM__deleted__

Churchill is quite good tank actually, it can solo any other medium tank

Jump back to quoted post27 Mar 2017, 12:02 PMnotrollo

build one stug or jagdpanzer and the churchill is useless

OKW can field a command panther before you can even start building a Churchill in 1vs1 most games



Come on hector, even Pumas can deal with the churchill it's so god damn slow.

Now imagine a world where a single SU-76 or AEC can counter the wehr tiger, because the Churchill is comparable in cost/pop cap (and it's getting bullied by single StuG's at the moment).

Jump back to quoted post27 Mar 2017, 12:42 PMVipper

Facts:
Churchill
cost 490/160
pop 18
Speed 4
Acceleration 3.5
Deceleration 3.5
rotation 32

Tiger
cost 640/230
pop 19
speed 4.7
Acceleration 1.5
Deceleration 1.8
rotation 24

A Su-76 can bully a Tiger because it can snipe it from range 60 with 60% chance of penetration.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2017, 11:27 AMMr.Smith

- Ostheer T3 is the way to go
- 18-popcap Churchill get denied by 8-popcap Stugs

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2017, 09:39 AMVipper

Imo Churchill should be closer to historical role of an "infantry support heavy tank" and should be used with infantry support.

To achieve this I would suggest 2 changes for start:

1) Move WP smoke from Comet to Churchill and reduce range to 40.
Reasons:
Comet already can easily deal with infantry and ATGs so it does not need the WP smoke. In addition that would allow the Churchill to dislodge hmgs that would pin its supporting infantry.

2) Change the "covering smoke" to actually be useful to infantry (maybe remove the speed penalty or make the speed of vehicle 4 when active).
Reasons:
Instead of vision blocker (that mostly benefit that tank itself)it should enable attack cover bonuses for infantry allowing better synergy. A similar ability is already in game in the commandos "Cover Smoke Grenade". Since this might actually be a bit strong I would start with a smoke that simply act as if the UKF infantry are in cover and they get their firing bonuses.

Imo these changes will allow the unit to be useful when used with supporting infantry.

Jump back to quoted post13 Mar 2017, 11:27 AMMr.Smith

Arguably, the reason why nobody goes for Churchills is because:
- Ostheer T3 is the way to go
- 18-popcap Churchill get denied by 8-popcap Stugs

Jump back to quoted post28 Mar 2017, 00:29 AMZombiFrancis

Most underused Brit tank or most overshadowed Brit tank?