Was just watching this Propagandacast and noticed a Raketenwerfer being used as a forward scouting unit because it's possible to use its sight range to scout while keeping it far enough from any enemy units to remain stealthed...
And a while back, saw one with UKF Commandos who were moving between cover over considerable distances with no cover and remained in stealth the whole time.
The cooldowns on stealth definitely needed fixing, as the mechanic was acting as some kind of combat invisibility cloak, but I don't think that'll be enough.
Is there any real reasoning for allowing stealth to work while moving?
After all, the tactical idea behind stealth is to allow ambushes, right?
So does it really make sense for a Raketenwerfer to be able to just move around under a magical invisibility cloak despite being in the open and in sight range of enemy units?
And would it really harm the usability of stealth to limit it to only working while stationary?
Fixing Stealth Cooldowns Isn't Enough
2 Mar 2017, 06:35 AM
#1
Posts: 246
2 Mar 2017, 07:20 AM
#2
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
If you remove the raketen's cloak you'd be better off just replacing the entire unit then, with a Pak 38 for example.
The unit is a balance nightmare, not to mention a buggy nightmare like the FlaK HT.
I mean it fires into the ground, and the only sensible solution is to have the projectile spawn above it, which would look weird, that's how bad it is.
The unit is a balance nightmare, not to mention a buggy nightmare like the FlaK HT.
I mean it fires into the ground, and the only sensible solution is to have the projectile spawn above it, which would look weird, that's how bad it is.
2 Mar 2017, 10:20 AM
#3
Posts: 1003
Unchanged cloak and retreat option is too much.
Fires into ground must be repaired for all guns.
And I have nothing against giving green cover for raketen crew, but cloak system must be changed
according to WBP.
Another option is only stacionary cloak (for JgPzIV also).
Fires into ground must be repaired for all guns.
And I have nothing against giving green cover for raketen crew, but cloak system must be changed
according to WBP.
Another option is only stacionary cloak (for JgPzIV also).
I want to have the same chance, to win for each side.
2 Mar 2017, 11:46 AM
#5
Posts: 474
I've already said it multiple times: they should just do away with this unit and replace it with the Wehrmacht Pak40, unlockable by deploying a truck.
2 Mar 2017, 14:35 PM
#6
Posts: 957
No...
...correction: DEFINITELY NO!!
Certain units like for example Commandos are supposed to use their stealth to get in close without getting picked off and also effectively counter MGs.
What you described was the very way in which they are meant to be used
And the scouting rakketen...there is nothing wrong with that either, even though it may not be exactly the thing which you would buy an AT cannon for.
...correction: DEFINITELY NO!!
Certain units like for example Commandos are supposed to use their stealth to get in close without getting picked off and also effectively counter MGs.
What you described was the very way in which they are meant to be used
And the scouting rakketen...there is nothing wrong with that either, even though it may not be exactly the thing which you would buy an AT cannon for.
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
2 Mar 2017, 16:08 PM
#7
Posts: 2066
No...
...correction: DEFINITELY NO!!
Certain units like for example Commandos are supposed to use their stealth to get in close without getting picked off and also effectively counter MGs.
Oke, but why can they stay in cloak whilst covering so much distance? It is brain dead and unfair. They have insane dps and a mini satchell nuke nade that has a second timer. This unit has too much.
The problem with cloaked Rakettens is once they reach vet 1, it is almost impossible to catch them unless you bump into them by accident. Have two of them at vet 1 cloaked running around the field and no armor is safe, unless they hit the ground
Kappa
2 Mar 2017, 16:11 PM
#8
Posts: 246
No...
...correction: DEFINITELY NO!!
Certain units like for example Commandos are supposed to use their stealth to get in close without getting picked off and also effectively counter MGs.
What you described was the very way in which they are meant to be used
Yes, meant to, but is it fair? Is it balanced? Does it make sense for a unit to be invisible in the middle of an open field? What's the intended counterplay?
And the scouting rakketen...there is nothing wrong with that either, even though it may not be exactly the thing which you would buy an AT cannon for.
Come on now, a forward scouting AT gun... nothing wrong with it? Really?
Watch the Propagandacast I linked. It's absurdism.
2 Mar 2017, 18:49 PM
#9
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
"Combat BS stealth" > Fixed on WBP.
Scouting stealth > deal with it.
Vet1 bonus could be toned down, but to completely remove it, the AT gun should be slight better but i think the current model is not as bad as it could.
Recon planes, light vehicles with extended invisible detection and some other scout abilities or upgrades (IR STG for ex).
If possible i would make all light scoutcars (222, Kubel, M3A1, M20, Dodge, Greyhound, Bren Carrier) have far extra invisible detection but not LOS effect. Not sure if i'm clear but i meant the following:
-Say invisible detection is 70.
-Unit LOS is 50.
-You won't remove FOW from a unit which is at 60range, but if you had vision from something else, the unit which is cloaked will get revealed.
Scouting stealth > deal with it.
Vet1 bonus could be toned down, but to completely remove it, the AT gun should be slight better but i think the current model is not as bad as it could.
What's the intended counterplay?
Recon planes, light vehicles with extended invisible detection and some other scout abilities or upgrades (IR STG for ex).
If possible i would make all light scoutcars (222, Kubel, M3A1, M20, Dodge, Greyhound, Bren Carrier) have far extra invisible detection but not LOS effect. Not sure if i'm clear but i meant the following:
-Say invisible detection is 70.
-Unit LOS is 50.
-You won't remove FOW from a unit which is at 60range, but if you had vision from something else, the unit which is cloaked will get revealed.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
3 Mar 2017, 03:00 AM
#10
Posts: 1958
stuff....
And would it really harm the usability of stealth to limit it to only working while stationary?
The stealth is a compensation for the raketen being the worst AT gun in the game. I'd gladly trade it for a Pak40 when playing OKW. It misses a lot, seems to take a long time to aim, and has a shorter range than most AT guns. I'm pretty sure that most recon skills make it visible but haven't tested all of them. The radio beacons from IR pathfinders or regular pathfinders show them on the mini-map. The only time I've really been annoyed with them was when playing UKF and trying sim-city, and I'll bet that they were a lot more annoyed with sim-city than I was with the raketen.
I could see giving engineers or RE's a little longer detection range if counterplay is really needed.
3 Mar 2017, 09:14 AM
#11
Posts: 149
They will tone down the vet 1 speed and it will be ok. Without stealth in moving rakketen is useless cause you nerd that veichles come close your oen rakketen to do enough damage, range is low and it miss, so you need to move it on cloak.
3 Mar 2017, 09:37 AM
#12
Posts: 2272 | Subs: 1
lately i had a game which i could've won.
during the game i layed 2 (!) traps with cloaked püppchen against m3.
both times the püppchen shot missed and i lost the game.
if the Unit is so OP, OP, why aren't you top20 with abusing it then?
during the game i layed 2 (!) traps with cloaked püppchen against m3.
both times the püppchen shot missed and i lost the game.
if the Unit is so OP, OP, why aren't you top20 with abusing it then?
3 Mar 2017, 09:43 AM
#13
Posts: 626 | Subs: 1
If you remove the raketen's cloak you'd be better off just replacing the entire unit then, with a Pak 38 for example.
The unit is a balance nightmare, not to mention a buggy nightmare like the FlaK HT.
I mean it fires into the ground, and the only sensible solution is to have the projectile spawn above it, which would look weird, that's how bad it is.
+1
would look wierd but if this is gonna work then i can live with that
Don't think changes in WBP are enough, imo something must be done with this units some way or another
3 Mar 2017, 11:14 AM
#14
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
I've already said it multiple times: they should just do away with this unit and replace it with the Wehrmacht Pak40, unlockable by deploying a truck.
You mean how the MG34 is right now? How about just putting it in the battlegroup HQ? Since you know, it's not mechanized, doesn't make sense for it to be mechanized.
But Idk, replacing the raketen in the HQ and putting a requirement on it might also be a solution, I just hate seeing the HQ being cluttered that's all.
5 Mar 2017, 06:36 AM
#15
Posts: 137
One of the biggest problems is how the USSR doctrine cloak makes the non-retreatable AT gun move slower than retreatable rekens with their non-doctrine cloak. No consistency. Very low risk high reward play with cloak rekens sneaking up to volley armor then retreat.
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Lady Xenarra: Does anyone else think that USF needs buffs? It feels like they’re on life support sometimes
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Willy Pete: @Rosbone Ahh I missed that memo. I still think its a bad decision though. Adds frustration for players and isnt gonna make them that much money
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
27 Mar 2025, 15:46 PM
Rosbone: It is also good they left it free until after the free to play weekend. Points for that.
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:34 AM
Rosbone: But I agree, the cost to get a full decent Coh game pushing $115 US is not the best idea. Especially when it needs so much more work for casuals.
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:32 AM
Rosbone: To be fair, it was a thank you to early fans right? They said it was not free for long and it would become a pay DLC at some point.
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
27 Mar 2025, 09:30 AM
Willy Pete: Re-releasing free DLC so they can charge new players money for it. Brilliant marketing strategy 
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
27 Mar 2025, 04:31 AM
Rosbone: Congrats to Relic. Looks like Coh3 has finally usurped Coh2 s the popular Coh. You smell terrific. 
.
24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
.24 Mar 2025, 02:46 AM
Nickbn: and again someone else replies. I mean come on guys. Give @adamírcz a chance
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
22 Mar 2025, 14:00 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone it's incredibly rude to speak on someone elses behalf, especially when a question is directly adressed to them. I understand your passion for the subject at hand but I want to hear from him.
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
20 Mar 2025, 10:16 AM
Rosbone: @Nickbn No, I am just saying people should not be using any Relic owned forum since they have proven they ban anyone who says true things about Coh3.
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
18 Mar 2025, 19:01 PM
Nickbn: @Rosbone do you speak on his behalf? I didn't know. In that case keep us updated please.
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
18 Mar 2025, 16:47 PM
Rosbone: @Nickbn True except, the only people on the Relic Discord/Reddit/Steam are brain washed monkey zealots. They wont even understand what @adamírcz is talking about. Anyone else is banned.
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
16 Mar 2025, 17:54 PM
Nickbn: @adamírcz might be a better idea to voice this to relic directly than to voice it here, in a shoutbox of a nearly deade fansite #justsaying...
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
16 Mar 2025, 16:36 PM
adamírcz: So, I just got a leaver penalty without even getting onto the loading screen because of the game disconnecting, bravo Relic
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
14 Mar 2025, 10:45 AM
Rosbone: It is an indicator of the very short sighted capitalist view that plagues any company where leadership does not understand the product.
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
13 Mar 2025, 20:00 PM
Rosbone: They dont care about Coh3 or Coh in general. They are just trying to grab cash by ripping off the small user base they have.
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:58 PM
Rosbone: It is clear they crapped out an unfinished game. And are now barely supporting it as they make new smaller games. Coh3 is stillborn. It will be meh for at least another 2-4 years. Meaning they killed the whole franchise instead of growing it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:56 PM
Rosbone: If I did play coh3 and was mainly a skirmish player, I would be pissed and probably stop playing. And it has been like this since release. Why? I would not tell my friends to buy a game I am not even playing. Lost sales and angered users.
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:53 PM
Rosbone: I am just saddened how Relic keeps hurting themselves by not fixing 5 minute things like menus. Why anger users with stuff that could be fixed in minutes???
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:50 PM
Rosbone: I was wondering why people think I was raging. I think it was when I said "because coh3 sucks so bad". That was not my opinion. Just a general feel from top players/streamers. I dont play Coh3 and have NO opinion of it.
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
13 Mar 2025, 19:48 PM
OKSpitfire: You can rage as often as you like btw, you usually manage to make it pretty funny.
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
12 Mar 2025, 11:18 AM
Rosbone: So it was a systemic failure across multiple disciplines and check points.
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:30 AM
Rosbone: Knowing how companies work, I imagine a new hire making the menus. The API they are using is complicated and things were hard to figure out. But at some point QA or management should have addressed these things. Usually within 6 months of starting.
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:29 AM
Rosbone: @theekvn I dont hate Coh3 or Relic. I just dont understand how you work on Coh3 for like 7 years and the menu system is worse than if a Programming 101 student made it. Feel free to explain it to me.
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
12 Mar 2025, 04:07 AM
theekvn: KT just need fuel debuf from 15% to 50%, Ele arc of fire- aim time improve and they are good to go
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:59 AM
theekvn: and please Rosbone,I know you hate Coh3 to the bone due to your drama with relic, Still, Can you give a proper point of view instead of raging ?.
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
12 Mar 2025, 03:54 AM
KoRneY: @aerafield It's possible that it is underpriced for what it is capable of now, no need to go full retard and take it immediately as a massive problem. It costs 60 more MP than a pz.3 and in 2v2 the barrage can be quite strong.
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
07 Mar 2025, 19:14 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like that they made the Stuka more expensive instead of nerfing it into the ground though. Found it pretty unsatisfying to use before that buff a while back....
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
06 Mar 2025, 16:35 PM
aerafield: USF already is by far the shittiest faction in terms of countering blobbing and turtling, now they supposedly have one overtuned tool locked behind a BG and it's immediately a massive problem?
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
06 Mar 2025, 13:33 PM
Lady Xenarra: I think post-2.0 Whizbang buffs, the price is too low esp since the Stuka got nerfed in cost too. Speaking of which, how exactly is one supposed to successfully dive this Sherman in disguise? Med tank spam running into SSFs?
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
06 Mar 2025, 12:13 PM
OKSpitfire: A powerful, doctrinal unit that outperforms stock stuff? Colour me shocked! 
06 Mar 2025, 10:49 AM
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Lady Xenarra: WTB Whizzbang for DAK instead of Stuka, 5 fuel cheape, 60MP more expensive and next to impossible to dive. 
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
05 Mar 2025, 20:27 PM
Rosbone: It is also hard to expect Relic to help Coh2 when they cant even make working menus in Coh3 yet, 2 years after release and at full price+ for DLCs. Thats like asking a fish to do calculus.
04 Mar 2025, 02:58 AM
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Rosbone: But this last patch has made good progress for grabbing players. All we can hope is Coh3 gets to Coh2s quality level before everyone abandons the franchise. Its Relic so they will completely f*%k it up as usual. But its a hope/cope.
04 Mar 2025, 02:55 AM
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