A question regarding 4 team OKW opening.

So let's say that I don't have near 1000 hours in the game and just got it along with 3 of my friends.

We all only got OKW because they looked cool and German and all that, so we go in the game as a 4 man team of all OKW, and we immediately get rushed with superior Allied infantry, what do we do exactly without a T0 MG?

Because frankly speaking I'm getting sick and tired of getting rushed by Allied infantry without the support of a T0 MG, that or my Wehrmacht teammate is a complete retard and doesn't use his MGs correctly.

How do I hold my territory and keep Allied infantry at bay, how?

I think the stupid tech requirement has gone long enough for the OKW, they're already considered as underpowered so this just further adds to that, the Allies will always have superior infantry and I'm not against that or for nerfing them/buffing Axis infantry/support weapons/just MGs.

I just want my got damn T0 MG so I can play however I want and not however Relic states this Army to be a "Rush" Army, because that just does not fucking work.

But seriously, the old doctrinal MG was much better and it got wayyy earlier on the field, at least in my experience.

The tech requirement is basically forcing you to waste on of your trucks to setup near your HQ in order for you to be able to get an MG, so why have a mobile base system in the first place if you're not able to utilize it?

You all spam volks, all of you. Spam like your life hangs in the balance. Then 2 rush lucks, one rushes puma and the other dude gets a stuka.

stay together in pairs, so you can combine all your volks.

You are talking about two things here: 1) a T0 MG for OKW, and 2) a general game plan for OKW in 4v4.

To your second point first. You will find that OKW in team games benefits strongly from Kubels because they can cover large distances quickly and cap points. You can constantly keep your opponents moving to attack kubels instead of setting in. This strategy works well when another player gets a med truck up and one group does not have to retreat because they can reinforce on the field. You can even skip volks and tech to Fusilliers if you get enough pressure going. I find luchs in team games very unpractical since the amount of AT is higher and you can easily run into two AT guns, spelling doom for the tank and giving your opponents the mid game. The luchs still has a place, and it becomes a beast as it gains vet, but I tend to want callin infantry before I get a luchs. As Cloth pointed out the other option is volks spam all day every day. Volks can, in number, overwhelm Allied starts, especially if they can force off an MG or two.

Having said all this the Allies have a clear advantage in games right now. They have a fairly strong opening which leads to rapid tech to artillery of all sorts and ultimately a very high bleed for German forces. However, if OKW and Wehr can get a foothold they are nearly impossible to control since their late game power can come into the mix and the disadvantages it presents in smaller game modes simply don't exist (limited munitions is not a real thing in 4v4). The German team should be content to holder smaller amounts of the map and build out from there. I would strongly recommend the use of JT in all 4v4 games. You should also have a command panther, and a fortifications commander available in case of brit emplacements. I would also consider the SturmTiger as a strong choice.

On the MG, that is a bit tougher. OKW needs a more complete rework and I think moving the MG to T0 is possible but with current OKW it would be too punishing early for Allied infantry facing off against cheap spammable volks.

You all spam volks, all of you. Spam like your life hangs in the balance. Then 2 rush lucks, one rushes puma and the other dude gets a stuka.

stay together in pairs, so you can combine all your volks.

Alright, that sounds feasible, however you're not accounting for the fact that we are complete noobs that just got the game, getting an early MG out sounds like the best idea since we read a tip on machine guns while loading the match.

You are talking about two things here: 1) a T0 MG for OKW, and 2) a general game plan for OKW in 4v4.

To your second point first. You will find that OKW in team games benefits strongly from Kubels because they can cover large distances quickly and cap points. You can constantly keep your opponents moving to attack kubels instead of setting in. This strategy works well when another player gets a med truck up and one group does not have to retreat because they can reinforce on the field. You can even skip volks and tech to Fusilliers if you get enough pressure going. I find luchs in team games very unpractical since the amount of AT is higher and you can easily run into two AT guns, spelling doom for the tank and giving your opponents the mid game. The luchs still has a place, and it becomes a beast as it gains vet, but I tend to want callin infantry before I get a luchs. As Cloth pointed out the other option is volks spam all day every day. Volks can, in number, overwhelm Allied starts, especially if they can force off an MG or two.

Having said all this the Allies have a clear advantage in games right now. They have a fairly strong opening which leads to rapid tech to artillery of all sorts and ultimately a very high bleed for German forces. However, if OKW and Wehr can get a foothold they are nearly impossible to control since their late game power can come into the mix and the disadvantages it presents in smaller game modes simply don't exist (limited munitions is not a real thing in 4v4). The German team should be content to holder smaller amounts of the map and build out from there. I would strongly recommend the use of JT in all 4v4 games. You should also have a command panther, and a fortifications commander available in case of brit emplacements. I would also consider the SturmTiger as a strong choice.

On the MG, that is a bit tougher. OKW needs a more complete rework and I think moving the MG to T0 is possible but with current OKW it would be too punishing early for Allied infantry facing off against cheap spammable volks.

I agree with what you said, but like you said,the German team should hold a small amount of the map (preferably their fuel at the very least) and work their way from there but that's just impossible for an all OKW to hold on to shit with just mass volks when you're facing superior mass Allied infantry.

A solution will be to make mg34 unlocked when you have your first truck constructed.Now,speaking about in the present,if is an open field map,build at least 1 squad of volks more than your enemy.If is a close quarter map...at least 2 sturms will be good+volks(so in total you have at least your enemy number of squad).This way you make your opponent to invest in infantry...then go medic HQ,make flak halftruck,and turtle with 1-2 rakketen...then if he had snipers,maxims,in late game he will not have a lot on infantry and you will steamroll everything.But yeah,stuka works well if they spam MG's,if not go for flak ht(cause you need to defend)luch is good for offensive but i will not rush for it.Usually i lose cause i rush him.By the way,4 OKW it's very hard vs 3 different allied teams

More than anything, forget about being OKW and remember that teamwork is what 4v4s are about. Whatever you do, communicate and coordinate with your teammates. Make pushes and retreats as a team. All too often you'll have 2 players alternating getting 2v1ed. I don't care how big your e-nuts may be, if you act alone in a 4v4 you'll probably find yourself being overwhelmed every time.

Any other advice I could give is entirely situational. If you and your teammates are all noobs, you're never going to know exactly the best engagements to fight. But you can try to talk to your teammates even if it's your first game of coh.

Imagine on maps with large buildings or on smaller game modes how broken the initial sturmpio would be with same-player mg support. You could just rush a building with your sturms and then throw the mg in and boom. Huge lockdown on allies. Failing that, you still have the only good squad with automatic weapons on the field at this time, and cheap spammable volks, along with a fast capping kubel and t0 (albeit arguably crappy) at gun now with a machine gun creating a disproportionately strong and varied army right out the gate. It'd be like if soviets got penals, clown car, zis, and maxim from their starting hq. Broken.

Alright, that sounds feasible, however you're not accounting for the fact that we are complete noobs that just got the game, getting an early MG out sounds like the best idea since we read a tip on machine guns while loading the match.

Well if you're total noobs you would probably also be playing against total noobs, so volkspam should hold you over till you get a truck set up somewhere, which in turn should hold you over till you get a panzer hq, and when the first tanks hit the field, yours will be way better, you will have bled far less manpower from using volks instead of penals/rifles/IS and from playing defensively, so even if he does get tanks before you, you will have the advantage provided you survived this long. Also, keep in mind that till forward retreat points start hitting the field, the allies will have to retreat realllllly far on most 4v4 maps if they are playing aggressively.

Imagine on maps with large buildings or on smaller game modes how broken the initial sturmpio would be with same-player mg support. You could just rush a building with your sturms and then throw the mg in and boom. Huge lockdown on allies. Failing that, you still have the only good squad with automatic weapons on the field at this time, and cheap spammable volks, along with a fast capping kubel and t0 (albeit arguably crappy) at gun now with a machine gun creating a disproportionately strong and varied army right out the gate. It'd be like if soviets got penals, clown car, zis, and maxim from their starting hq. Broken.

That sounds good on paper but in reality it's not.

What you present is the perfect situation, and tell me, how often would you seem something like that?

Sturms sitting in front of the building just waiting for someone to charge in? The Allies have loads and loads of anti-garrison and in-direct fire options, it's enough for 2 squads of cons to run it from 2 sides to get the MG out with a molotov even with a Sturm squad there.

And let's not talk about how much a Mortar Pit would suck for the MG34 in a small map against the Brits, it can't even last a half a minute inside a building with that thing around, and what about the USF mortar?

I would rather have one or two guys go Ostheer. One gets the Elefant doctrine for spotting scopes, stuka balance bomb and elefant. If there are two Ostheer players, one gets the elefant doctinre as mentioned, the other goes one with the stuka loiter.

I would rather have one or two guys go Ostheer. One gets the Elefant doctrine for spotting scopes, stuka balance bomb and elefant. If there are two Ostheer players, one gets the elefant doctinre as mentioned, the other goes one with the stuka loiter.

U right that works hard i always happy if someone chose tiger but elefant is cancer or maybe not like jagtiger

I would rather have one or two guys go Ostheer. One gets the Elefant doctrine for spotting scopes, stuka balance bomb and elefant. If there are two Ostheer players, one gets the elefant doctinre as mentioned, the other goes one with the stuka loiter.

Like I said, in this scenario, I don't have 1000 hours in game, I'm just some random dude with 3 friends and we just bought OKW because they look the coolest or something and we just straight jump into it.

Like I said, in this scenario, I don't have 1000 hours in game, I'm just some random dude with 3 friends and we just bought OKW because they look the coolest or something and we just straight jump into it.

Then you all spam volks like I said and communicate to get the unit disposition I explained. If you don´t, you will lose so hard lol.

Then you all spam volks like I said and communicate to get the unit disposition I explained. If you don´t, you will lose so hard lol.

So much for Relic's "strategy" game... Rather Real Time Spam fest.

So much for Relic's "strategy" game... Rather Real Time Spam fest.

Spamming can be considered a strategy lol.

Like I said, in this scenario, I don't have 1000 hours in game, I'm just some random dude with 3 friends and we just bought OKW because they look the coolest or something and we just straight jump into it.

The most important part in a 4v4 is understanding the map.

Games are often won or lost in the first five minutes if you can control the chokepoints/fuel. 4on4's are a little different in that with the volume of units on the field and the sheer destruction that's around every corner tech instead of the linear progression of Inf > Light Veh > Med Armor > Hvy Armor usually goes Inf > Lock down fuel > Hvy Armor slug fest.

I would suggest playing 2v2's against each other to get a feel for the game if possible. Then transition back into 4v4's and try to split into teams of 2, each trying to rush/hold a fuel point, or in some scenarios "Lienne Forrest" for instance, split 3 of you into the city, and one to sweep the forest. Lorch, same sort of situation, you may want to forgo the castle area all together and focus on the city, just try and harass the other VP's when possible.

I personally in solo queue veto

Montargis
Steppes (controversial, I find no one understands 2 islands, 2 center fuel)
Vielsam
and sometimes Hamburg

Each other 4on4 map is pretty straight forward. Rush your first squads to cover/garrisons near fuel points, entrench hold on for dear life, and bring up the best medium tank you can as quickly as you can.

So much for Relic's "strategy" game... Rather Real Time Spam fest.

and yeah... the map design means that 4on4's don't allow you the width to employ actual squad tactics and play like a 1on1, it's just sort of throwing units at each other. Another reason why taking and holding the chokepoints from the start means that you can control the match.

The most important part in a 4v4 is understanding the map.

Games are often won or lost in the first five minutes if you can control the chokepoints/fuel. 4on4's are a little different in that with the volume of units on the field and the sheer destruction that's around every corner tech instead of the linear progression of Inf > Light Veh > Med Armor > Hvy Armor usually goes Inf > Lock down fuel > Hvy Armor slug fest.

I would suggest playing 2v2's against each other to get a feel for the game if possible. Then transition back into 4v4's and try to split into teams of 2, each trying to rush/hold a fuel point, or in some scenarios "Lienne Forrest" for instance, split 3 of you into the city, and one to sweep the forest. Lorch, same sort of situation, you may want to forgo the castle area all together and focus on the city, just try and harass the other VP's when possible.

I personally in solo queue veto

Montargis
Steppes (controversial, I find no one understands 2 islands, 2 center fuel)
Vielsam
and sometimes Hamburg

Each other 4on4 map is pretty straight forward. Rush your first squads to cover/garrisons near fuel points, entrench hold on for dear life, and bring up the best medium tank you can as quickly as you can.



and yeah... the map design means that 4on4's don't allow you the width to employ actual squad tactics and play like a 1on1, it's just sort of throwing units at each other. Another reason why taking and holding the chokepoints from the start means that you can control the match.

And so because the game is being balanced around 1v1s and 2v2s by competitive people OKW fans like myself that enjoy 4v4s can't hold their ground because they don't have a T0 MG... great.

I'm just waiting for them to release the WBP so I can make myself a mod that removes the MG34 requirement so I can prove once and for all that a T0 MG is badly needed for the OKW.

And so because the game is being balanced around 1v1s and 2v2s by competitive people OKW fans like myself that enjoy 4v4s can't hold their ground because they don't have a T0 MG... great.

I'm just waiting for them to release the WBP so I can make myself a mod that removes the MG34 requirement so I can prove once and for all that a T0 MG is badly needed for the OKW.

Yeah, unfortunately that is the case. Frankly, I believe that an emphasis on 1on1 has led us to where we are now in terms of popularity, and lethality. In that respect it makes more sense to balance for the absurd and then have the changes trickle down to smaller modes. Regardless, It's clear that most people would rather play team games; but, that's a discussion for another thread.

In response to you trying to sneak in the idea of an MG34 at every opportunity in the discussion I'm of the notion that you have enough fire power to have a reasonable opening without a suppression platform. Is it one dimensional, probably, is that necessarily a bad thing/is an OKW player significantly worse off without it? Debatable, I tend to side with the discourse primarily 'cos I can remember the Kubelwagon with suppression + Sturm charges; the effect would be the same only slightly later in arriving.

ps. forget the Luchs, double leigs will contend with anything the allies can throw at you, plop down the Schwerer and they're going to be hardpressed not to spend precious resources on indirect fire; that is, if they can catch up in the first place.

Yeah, unfortunately that is the case. Frankly, I believe that an emphasis on 1on1 has led us to where we are now in terms of popularity, and lethality. In that respect it makes more sense to balance for the absurd and then have the changes trickle down to smaller modes. Regardless, It's clear that most people would rather play team games; but, that's a discussion for another thread.

In response to you trying to sneak in the idea of an MG34 at every opportunity in the discussion I'm of the notion that you have enough fire power to have a reasonable opening without a suppression platform. Is it one dimensional, probably, is that necessarily a bad thing/is an OKW player significantly worse off without it? Debatable, I tend to side with the discourse primarily 'cos I can remember the Kubelwagon with suppression + Sturm charges; the effect would be the same only slightly later in arriving.

ps. forget the Luchs, double leigs will contend with anything the allies can throw at you, plop down the Schwerer and they're going to be hardpressed not to spend precious resources on indirect fire; that is, if they can catch up in the first place.

This is why I think there should be 2 modes, a competitive 1v1 or 2v2 mode and a larger 3v3 and 4v4 mode, balance would be difference with accordance to each mode, people that wanna play competitively can still enjoy 1v1s and 2v2s while 3v3s and 4v4s would be untouched by it.

Oh and I already made my mod, couldn't wait: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=875521850

It's a work in progress and I'm thinking of changing a couple of more things.