What is the state of Panzer 4 on the Winter Balance Patch
13 Feb 2017, 11:36 AM
#41
Posts: 2807 | Subs: 6
P4 for OKW and ostheer is like the worst med tank in the game for it's cost, it cant crush so efficiently like cromwell or t34, penetration kinda sucks, high tech required, and it's kinda slow in rotation and speed, dunno why it havent been changed in first place
13 Feb 2017, 12:19 PM
#42
Posts: 1220
replace wermaht panther and panzer with okw equivalent and gg wp evrybody dance now problem solved
13 Feb 2017, 12:32 PM
#43
Posts: 25
replace wermaht panther and panzer with okw equivalent and gg wp evrybody dance now problem solved
I will give this a try, sorry if it makes no sense. But! Aren't the OKW panzer IV and Panther 'better' since they get accuracy bonuses with veterancy? Of course the OKW Panzer IV comes with added armor straight away so this helps too. So copying them over to the Ostheer will probably not help so much since they have the normal 3 stars of veterancy and not 5 stars and can't get that much accuracy from 3 stars of vet as the 5 star okw vehicles can get.
13 Feb 2017, 14:28 PM
#44
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
Invissed two posts.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
13 Feb 2017, 17:16 PM
#45
Posts: 1217
But! Aren't the OKW panzer IV and Panther 'better' since they get accuracy bonuses with veterancy?The OKW Panther has slightly better reload than the Ostheer Panther on the maingun. The accuracy on the move is better for OKW and the accuracy of the MGs is also better on the OKW Panther (talking about vet0).
Ostheer was once designed to have a good lategame and the Ostheer Panther comes out way later than the OKW one.
That´s why some people suggest for a long time that the Ostheer Panther should be replaced by the OKW variant. There is simply no logical reason to give Ostheer a crippled version of the Panther except "Ostheer mustn´t have nice things". And before someone mentions it: The increased fuel cost for OKW was introduced to compensate the ressource float after the economy changes.
13 Feb 2017, 17:29 PM
#46
Posts: 278
Most cancerous of Relic's ploys was self spotting ISU-152 and Elefant. Now that I think of it, the preview stream of Tiger Ace and Windustry by relic was funny too. The guy knew that everything was completely broken and overpowered, but he still tried to talk over it with arguments about how you could easily counter the I WIN button Tiger Ace or the 5 minute T34 lol.
Lol. I'd forgotten about windustry/tiger monster. The balance around that time was amazingly bad-wasn't that when LMG42 greens out DPS'd shocks at close range?
13 Feb 2017, 18:39 PM
#47
Posts: 25
The OKW Panther has slightly better reload than the Ostheer Panther on the maingun. The accuracy on the move is better for OKW and the accuracy of the MGs is also better on the OKW Panther (talking about vet0).
Ostheer was once designed to have a good lategame and the Ostheer Panther comes out way later than the OKW one.
That´s why some people suggest for a long time that the Ostheer Panther should be replaced by the OKW variant. There is simply no logical reason to give Ostheer a crippled version of the Panther except "Ostheer mustn´t have nice things". And before someone mentions it: The increased fuel cost for OKW was introduced to compensate the ressource float after the economy changes.
Well that explains a few things. My knowledge of the game has grown again. Thanks!
13 Feb 2017, 21:31 PM
#48
9 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29
P4 for OKW and ostheer is like the worst med tank in the game for it's cost, it cant crush so efficiently like cromwell or t34, penetration kinda sucks, high tech required, and it's kinda slow in rotation and speed, dunno why it havent been changed in first place
I agree. I think the OKW P4 could lose 10 fuel off its cost with almost no dispute.
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13 Feb 2017, 22:57 PM
#49
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
Lol. I'd forgotten about windustry/tiger monster. The balance around that time was amazingly bad-wasn't that when LMG42 greens out DPS'd shocks at close range?
I don't recall that happening. Maybe it was Obers' LMG34 on release you were thinking of (though I'm pretty sure it'd still be close and solely on a one-by-one basis)?
14 Feb 2017, 04:26 AM
#50
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
The p4 is not a bad tank, it's just that everything else is better. I would give it a slight boost to penetration and accuracy, that is all it needs. It does not need a fuel cost decrease, it comes at a good time in the build order. It doesn't need to come faster. The little bit more accuracy and penetration will help it match up better against the t-34/85 and the Easy-8, which are closer to its equivalents price-wise. Once the other over-performing medium tanks are brought in line it will be in a good spot.
The OKW p4 is completely fine though. The extra starting armor, the faster OKW repair speeds, and the amazing veterancy bonuses make up for any shortcomings in the tank.
The OKW p4 is completely fine though. The extra starting armor, the faster OKW repair speeds, and the amazing veterancy bonuses make up for any shortcomings in the tank.
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14 Feb 2017, 12:25 PM
#51
Posts: 283
I agree. I think the OKW P4 could lose 10 fuel off its cost with almost no dispute.
That's not enough though, the Cromwell would still be cheaper while being better at everything except armour. Heck, the Cromwell comes out earlier and with a lower tech-investment, because UKF doesn't have a fucked up teching system (despite being linear).
16 Feb 2017, 04:42 AM
#52
Posts: 278
I don't recall that happening. Maybe it was Obers' LMG34 on release you were thinking of (though I'm pretty sure it'd still be close and solely on a one-by-one basis)?
My recollection is that shortly after the march deployment in '14 or so there was a short period where the gren's 42 was batshit overpowered. (This was definitely before any expansions.) Looking back through the patch notes it may just be that grens got a decent DPS boost at the same time that shocks armor got halved. Since I'd just started playing I'm sure my impressions were pretty exaggerated.
16 Feb 2017, 07:33 AM
#53
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
The p4 is not a bad tank, it's just that everything else is better. I would give it a slight boost to penetration and accuracy, that is all it needs. It does not need a fuel cost decrease, it comes at a good time in the build order. It doesn't need to come faster. The little bit more accuracy and penetration will help it match up better against the t-34/85 and the Easy-8, which are closer to its equivalents price-wise. Once the other over-performing medium tanks are brought in line it will be in a good spot.
The OKW p4 is completely fine though. The extra starting armor, the faster OKW repair speeds, and the amazing veterancy bonuses make up for any shortcomings in the tank.
I would have propose the opposite, keep it as it is but decrease its fuel price to 110.
16 Feb 2017, 11:32 AM
#54
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
My recollection is that shortly after the march deployment in '14 or so there was a short period where the gren's 42 was batshit overpowered. (This was definitely before any expansions.) Looking back through the patch notes it may just be that grens got a decent DPS boost at the same time that shocks armor got halved. Since I'd just started playing I'm sure my impressions were pretty exaggerated.
Gren could suppress squads and Pios were overpowered for a couple of weeks.
Regarding topic.
OH PIV: decrease fuel cost by 5. +10 Pen across board.
Cromwell: increase fuel cost by 5
I know historical balance decisions are not good, but why is it that UKF tanks get's 0.75 acc on the move? USF get's it due to their "gyrostabilizer" but did UKF tanks had something simil?
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And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
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16 Feb 2017, 12:20 PM
#55
Posts: 1225
Gyrostab was almost never used in the ETO, and its effect was rather limited anyways. 2 pounder armed Brit tanks were stabilised ...by their gunners. No really. They had a device which allowed the gunner to stabilise the gun on his shoulder, and it worked fairly well. The most stable gun platform on the move cross country in WW2 was actually the Panther though. That being said, competent tank crews of any nation almost never fired on the move.
16 Feb 2017, 16:46 PM
#56
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
I would have propose the opposite, keep it as it is but decrease its fuel price to 110.
It comes out at a good time imo. I don't think we need to see more p4s earlier on the field, it's just not as effective as it should be. I like the idea of fewer better p4s supported by the Ostheer support weapons than just straight up more p4s to make up its weaknesses.
Some asymmetry in medium tank pricing is also nice.
Personal preference really.
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16 Feb 2017, 17:06 PM
#57
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
It comes out at a good time imo. I don't think we need to see more p4s earlier on the field, it's just not as effective as it should be. I like the idea of fewer better p4s supported by the Ostheer support weapons than just straight up more p4s to make up its weaknesses.
Some asymmetry in medium tank pricing is also nice.
Personal preference really.
As Ostheer the P4 is usually your first real armored vehicle that have a impact, Sov have T70, USF stuart, brit AEC and OKW Luch.
I know we must keep it in perspective with the WBP but your Pz4 is actually quite critical when it comes out today. It would be good to reduce this criticality to make the Ostheer mid game transition less stressful.
16 Feb 2017, 17:32 PM
#58
Posts: 410
P4 is how a medium tank is supposed to be, slow and sluggish, but decent at AT and AI. What needs a change is the ridiculous mobility (acceleration, turning speed) for Cromwells and M10s. Rather then bringing the P4 on their level, I'd like the opposite to happen.
I agree, I would set cromwell stats like T-34 85 in acceleration and maybe a little bit more in max speed.
I would apply the same regarding comets. It's a joke how fast in response they are.
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