What is the state of Panzer 4 on the Winter Balance Patch

Jump back to quoted post13 Feb 2017, 12:19 PMSupremeStefan

replace wermaht panther and panzer with okw equivalent and gg wp evrybody dance now problem solved

Jump back to quoted post13 Feb 2017, 12:32 PMAPlebsyTeddyBear18

But! Aren't the OKW panzer IV and Panther 'better' since they get accuracy bonuses with veterancy?

Jump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 09:03 AMDangerous-Cloth

Most cancerous of Relic's ploys was self spotting ISU-152 and Elefant. Now that I think of it, the preview stream of Tiger Ace and Windustry by relic was funny too. The guy knew that everything was completely broken and overpowered, but he still tried to talk over it with arguments about how you could easily counter the I WIN button Tiger Ace or the 5 minute T34 lol.

Jump back to quoted post13 Feb 2017, 17:16 PMButcher

The OKW Panther has slightly better reload than the Ostheer Panther on the maingun. The accuracy on the move is better for OKW and the accuracy of the MGs is also better on the OKW Panther (talking about vet0).

Ostheer was once designed to have a good lategame and the Ostheer Panther comes out way later than the OKW one.

That´s why some people suggest for a long time that the Ostheer Panther should be replaced by the OKW variant. There is simply no logical reason to give Ostheer a crippled version of the Panther except "Ostheer mustn´t have nice things". And before someone mentions it: The increased fuel cost for OKW was introduced to compensate the ressource float after the economy changes.

Jump back to quoted post13 Feb 2017, 11:36 AMBartonPL

P4 for OKW and ostheer is like the worst med tank in the game for it's cost, it cant crush so efficiently like cromwell or t34, penetration kinda sucks, high tech required, and it's kinda slow in rotation and speed, dunno why it havent been changed in first place

Jump back to quoted post13 Feb 2017, 17:29 PMWygrif

Lol. I'd forgotten about windustry/tiger monster. The balance around that time was amazingly bad-wasn't that when LMG42 greens out DPS'd shocks at close range?

Jump back to quoted post13 Feb 2017, 21:31 PMtightrope

I agree. I think the OKW P4 could lose 10 fuel off its cost with almost no dispute.

Jump back to quoted post13 Feb 2017, 22:57 PMVuther

I don't recall that happening. Maybe it was Obers' LMG34 on release you were thinking of (though I'm pretty sure it'd still be close and solely on a one-by-one basis)?

Jump back to quoted post14 Feb 2017, 04:26 AMTobis

The p4 is not a bad tank, it's just that everything else is better. I would give it a slight boost to penetration and accuracy, that is all it needs. It does not need a fuel cost decrease, it comes at a good time in the build order. It doesn't need to come faster. The little bit more accuracy and penetration will help it match up better against the t-34/85 and the Easy-8, which are closer to its equivalents price-wise. Once the other over-performing medium tanks are brought in line it will be in a good spot.

The OKW p4 is completely fine though. The extra starting armor, the faster OKW repair speeds, and the amazing veterancy bonuses make up for any shortcomings in the tank.

Jump back to quoted post16 Feb 2017, 04:42 AMWygrif

My recollection is that shortly after the march deployment in '14 or so there was a short period where the gren's 42 was batshit overpowered. (This was definitely before any expansions.) Looking back through the patch notes it may just be that grens got a decent DPS boost at the same time that shocks armor got halved. Since I'd just started playing I'm sure my impressions were pretty exaggerated.

Jump back to quoted post16 Feb 2017, 07:33 AMEsxile

I would have propose the opposite, keep it as it is but decrease its fuel price to 110.

Jump back to quoted post16 Feb 2017, 16:46 PMTobis

It comes out at a good time imo. I don't think we need to see more p4s earlier on the field, it's just not as effective as it should be. I like the idea of fewer better p4s supported by the Ostheer support weapons than just straight up more p4s to make up its weaknesses.

Some asymmetry in medium tank pricing is also nice.

Personal preference really.

Jump back to quoted post11 Feb 2017, 03:53 AMluvnest

P4 is how a medium tank is supposed to be, slow and sluggish, but decent at AT and AI. What needs a change is the ridiculous mobility (acceleration, turning speed) for Cromwells and M10s. Rather then bringing the P4 on their level, I'd like the opposite to happen.