Vanilla factions vs DLC factions

Hi, I have always wondered this and before you accuse me of knowing nothing about balance, I am not saying this is not balanced. But anyway, how does it balance out that sov/wehr get no bonuses from teching whereas USA get a unit for every teir level (LT, Capt, Maj), OKW get a forward building (med, mech and flak)and british get artillery ability. I understand that Wehr unlock rifle nade/mg ability so maybe that discounts the british teiring.

Alongside these teir bonuses the new factions do not have to use a pio/engineer to build the new teir. This means old factions get no/little bonus and have waste engineer time. I am not saying that the factions should be homogenized but it seems that the new factions have a step up on the old ones.

If someone knows how this balances out please tell me. The only thing i could see is maybe less manpower to tech but I am unsure this is the case.

Thanks and I welcome flaming

Hi, I have always wondered this and before you accuse me of knowing nothing about balance, I am not saying this is not balanced. But anyway, how does it balance out that sov/wehr get no bonuses from teching whereas USA get a unit for every teir level (LT, Capt, Maj), OKW get a forward building (med, mech and flak)and british get artillery ability. I understand that Wehr unlock rifle nade/mg ability so maybe that discounts the british teiring.

Alongside these teir bonuses the new factions do not have to use a pio/engineer to build the new teir. This means old factions get no/little bonus and have waste engineer time. I am not saying that the factions should be homogenized but it seems that the new factions have a step up on the old ones.

If someone knows how this balances out please tell me. The only thing i could see is maybe less manpower to tech but I am unsure this is the case.

Thanks and I welcome flaming

What Ostheer can do, OKW do it better.

Because the DLC factions were designed later. Relic released CoH2 in a time when their previous publisher, THQ, went bankrupt. They had to push CoH2 out in a state that most certainly didn't match their intended conceptual design completely.

I think a lot of things/ideas were scrapped from the Vanilla factions to simply reach and/or realize the launch of CoH2. These ideas and utilities you now find in the DLC factions.

yeah i get that cloth, but there have been many patches since to fix. Lelic

Because the DLC factions were designed later. Relic released CoH2 in a time when their previous publisher, THQ, went bankrupt. They had to push CoH2 out in a state that most certainly didn't match their intended conceptual design completely.

I think a lot of things/ideas were scrapped from the Vanilla factions to simply reach and/or realize the launch of CoH2. These ideas and utilities you now find in the DLC factions.

Thats actually a well thought out explanation.

yeah i get that cloth, but there have been many patches since to fix. Lelic

Patches to fix what mate?
You do realise they aren't very much interested in patching right?
It means throwing money for a resource to plug those holes (lets face it, money Relic does not have)

yeah i get that cloth, but there have been many patches since to fix. Lelic

I see, well then I don´t know lol

All 3 new factions have Forward retreat point wich is huge advatage especially in team games

It's called asymmetric balance

But I agree, EF factions are disadvantaged in that regard. They're better in other areas though. ...Right?

It's called asymmetric balance

But I agree, EF factions are disadvantaged in that regard. They're better in other areas though. ...Right?

Bullshit balance if you ask me.

And lol, what Araden said, what the East does the West can do it better

Because the DLC factions were designed later. Relic released CoH2 in a time when their previous publisher, THQ, went bankrupt. They had to push CoH2 out in a state that most certainly didn't match their intended conceptual design completely.

I think a lot of things/ideas were scrapped from the Vanilla factions to simply reach and/or realize the launch of CoH2. These ideas and utilities you now find in the DLC factions.

This.

The game was released in a hardly finished mode, large bugs remained that even made play hard in some cases. For instance, at release the Su85's out ranged pak guns and could snipe crews, got no debuffs for focus forward and even had infantry detection to help them do this, this kind of stuff does not make it through good play testing and balancing before launch. DLC came much later when new ideas could be built in.

How do you balance it now? Well you could make units that come from stock factions more powerful by a slight margin to help them, you could offer them more tools, etc. There are many ways to do so.

Soviets are being reworked, yet no forward retreat point without a doctrine. Perhaps Ostheer will get reworked later too. At least give everyone a forward retreat point of give no faction one.

is there somewhere i can see all the tech costs laid out?

I think it's worth noting that Soviets versus Ostheer matches have the most potential for a balanced game. OKW versus USF has a particular level of balance as well.

The problems have been with USF versus OST and OKW versus SOV since the beginning.

Brits... Well, nevermind Brits. They're a special snowflake.

(I think it's also worth noting that the exact same was true with the expansion factions in CoH1.)

US does get a lot of free stuff yes, but you pay 300 MP and 40 fuel for weapons and grenades, which is not much but it's something Wehr gets for free.
The fact the games pacing as well as some other issues to be adressed eventually make the US vs Wehr matchup a bit one sided aren't really related to their design which has the feature of FREE SQUADS.

brits get all the nice stuff from every other faction..in most cases in better versions.

They get a big noobiness bonus through their good units and cancer emplacments, call ins and bonuses.

so in most teamgames they can play with a cup of tea..in both hands.

Why can't you play as vanilla just versus vanilla faction...I mean,this was intended to be a Eastern Front game when the first trailers came out...Ost vs Sov and Sov vs Ost
Veto factions LeLic

Why can't you play as vanilla just versus vanilla faction...I mean,this was intended to be a Eastern Front game when the first trailers came out...Ost vs Sov and Sov vs Ost
Veto factions LeLic

Because there are not enough players to make that viable. If you could veto factions the waiting times would be huge.

Indeed,still the game was more balanced a month before WFA...between vanilla factions

DLC factions have been thought and build around what vanilla factions were. The idea leading the game designers was obviously: how can we make it better, and how can we improve the player experience with the DLC.

You have the experience from what vanilla factions can do and can't do and suddenly you want to overcome that and provide a new faction with different design: Vanilla factions have stock flamethrowers, DLC factions will not but have FRP because it's cool, vanilla factions don't have it and it brings new strategical experience.
The problem comes from the fact that you can't really propose a lot of faction design on a strategy game if you want to keep them balanced.
You can make two different factions with a lot of asymmetrical aspect, but 3,4 or 5 factions. It simply doesn't work.

Instead of building a deepest strategical game by providing more dept in both Ostheer and Soviet factions like for example improving and innovating in the Commander point system of the game or bulletins or providing different stock upgrade like they did for the Brit. they went to more factions and less game design.

Probably because it is easier to sell a DLC containing new factions, to reach the US market better with the USF faction and then the UK market.

Alongside these teir bonuses the new factions do not have to use a pio/engineer to build the new teir. This means old factions get no/little bonus and have waste engineer time. I am not saying that the factions should be homogenized but it seems that the new factions have a step up on the old ones.

Cause they are new and new dlcs allways need to be sold well.