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Conscript Upgrade Concept

23 Dec 2016, 11:36 AM
#21
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 440

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Dec 2016, 11:33 AMVipper
Conscript could trade ourah for decisive ability (timed costing mu maybe similar to Hit the dirt) that would increase their RA and their accuracy at max range. (then the should also have molotov replaced by a normal grenade and the AT grenade have increased range)

That would help them lose less bad to lmg gren when in cover.

normal grenade would help con get vet faster that great tho ,but i still think reduce molotov motion delay should do fine
23 Dec 2016, 12:40 PM
#22
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


normal grenade would help con get vet faster that great tho ,but i still think reduce molotov motion delay should do fine

The reason I would have Molotov replaced is that it need to be combined with ourah to be effective and because of this anti garrison capabilities.

Mainline infantry should not have anti garrison weapon at their disposal. That would allow other units do be more attractive...
23 Dec 2016, 20:52 PM
#23
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664


Hate it when people don't read..
Piss of mate.

I read the whole thing it just makes no fucking sense for a squad to maintain their long range dps with ppsh equipped. That's why I suggested that this idea sounds good but it should be normal PPSH upgrades and not one time global upgrade.
24 Dec 2016, 00:28 AM
#24
avatar of tightrope
Senior Caster Badge
Patrion 39

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29

Conscripts not having a weapon upgrade doesn't seem like much of an issue to me. Almost every doctrine has shocks, guards or ppsh cons already. Making a change like this would require an overhaul of almost every commander. I think because the maxim is so mobile it makes up for the low firepower of conscripts without having to rely on commanders too.

I am ok with conscripts being in more of a utility role for merging AT nades etc.
24 Dec 2016, 00:32 AM
#25
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

I'd rather see more things to focus on Conscript survivability and cheapness which suits the unit.

If I had to add an upgrade, it would possibly be adding two additional conscript squad members for no additional population or it conscripts reinforce is 2 for every 1 reinforce like IG in DoW II when they had their squad leader upgrades.

Making them cheaper to reinforce end game, would probably be enough however. Let everything else do the killing with conscripts doing all the support stuff and eating bullets for cheap.



i like this kind of upgrade more.
24 Dec 2016, 01:53 AM
#26
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

I always thought the Soviet Union should have a couple global upgrades that cost fuel that would do things like increase manpower income and reduce reinforce costs of infantry, or at least conscripts.

Minor increases or reductions that would mean a lot over time, but would be a dangerous investment to take too early. A hundred or so manpower and 40-80 fuel for:

+10 manpower a minute.

or

-10% reinforce costs on all infantry.

But at the same time I always thought the conscript PPsh upgrade should be stock, (that could just as easily stack with the doctrinal version for 6 PPsh).

Global upgrades costing fuel are often worthwhile. (I also thought OKW vet 4 and 5 should be locked behind an upgrade, and much easier to acquire as a result).
24 Dec 2016, 02:28 AM
#27
avatar of Kamzil118

Posts: 455

It's an idea which originated from the Ardennes Assault campaign, but why not just give the conscripts SVT-40s as an upgrade. It turns them a bit like riflemen as the USF. However, instead of all models getting the SVTs, only two are upgraded.

My suggestion to allowing them this upgrade is getting the Special Rifle Command building in order for the upgrade to be available. Thus, giving an incentive to get the building while risking anti-tank weapons for better infantry weapons.

Though giving conscripts their tank meatshield veterancy should be enough. After all, its to offset the elite units such as the Guards and the Shocks.
25 Dec 2016, 15:46 PM
#28
avatar of Waegukin

Posts: 609

I like Miragefla's idea of just giving them cheaper reinforce prices. A molly speed buff would also be nice, even if the price has to go up a bit to compensate.
25 Dec 2016, 16:55 PM
#29
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1

so many useless commanders, they could remove some of them and add some abilities for conspricts in tech structures.
25 Dec 2016, 16:57 PM
#30
avatar of Stark

Posts: 626 | Subs: 1

I'd rather see more things to focus on Conscript survivability and cheapness which suits the unit.

If I had to add an upgrade, it would possibly be adding two additional conscript squad members for no additional population or it conscripts reinforce is 2 for every 1 reinforce like IG in DoW II when they had their squad leader upgrades.

Making them cheaper to reinforce end game, would probably be enough however. Let everything else do the killing with conscripts doing all the support stuff and eating bullets for cheap.



Mira, 1 thing, remember to block merge ability after that.
25 Dec 2016, 17:24 PM
#31
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Quite frankly I wish Merge didn't delete squads. I wish it just reduced a squad to 1 man. Rename it to Reinforce for all it matters. :P

(Maybe a version of Merge that only 1 man conscript squads have that merges the whole squad.)
25 Dec 2016, 17:24 PM
#32
avatar of Muad'Dib

Posts: 368

Weapon upgrades on conscripts will completely mess up the Soviet faction design, especially if it's something useful at long (or any) range. There are many ways to fine tune conscript utility without buffing their DPS (starting with changes to Molotovs). The last thing this game needs is another durable squad you can attack-move blob mindlessly.
25 Dec 2016, 19:15 PM
#33
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Quite frankly I wish Merge didn't delete squads. I wish it just reduced a squad to 1 man. Rename it to Reinforce for all it matters. :P

(Maybe a version of Merge that only 1 man conscript squads have that merges the whole squad.)


I'd just be happy if merge at least refunded the manpower difference from the merge. So you merge your Conscripts together and if the squad ceases to exist as a separate entity, you receive 100 to 120 manpower.
25 Dec 2016, 23:02 PM
#34
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 611

Conscripts not having a weapon upgrade doesn't seem like much of an issue to me. Almost every doctrine has shocks, guards or ppsh cons already. Making a change like this would require an overhaul of almost every commander. I think because the maxim is so mobile it makes up for the low firepower of conscripts without having to rely on commanders too.

I am ok with conscripts being in more of a utility role for merging AT nades etc.


+1.

Although it could be argued that sovs must always have the strongest docs to be competitive. It is a shame that relic didn't provide more separation between faction design (all factions) and commanders. Almost every faction has crutched on commanders at some point in the game, sovs just have to do it permanently.

The other issue is oorah and merge abilities, as well as the fact that cons are a six man squad that only costs 240. Giving them more utility or strengthening them in some manner may have unintended side effects.

26 Dec 2016, 00:40 AM
#35
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378

Conscripts don't need any sort of upgrade, that's how they were designed to be, always depend on the doctrine choice and inferior scaling in late game.

They just need to revert the nerf they made on their accuracy and dps after all the axis fanboys whined about conspamming being "too effective".

Same thing with molotov, revert the nerf on the throw speed, that stupid conscript dance is annoying.


26 Dec 2016, 01:39 AM
#36
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Dec 2016, 00:40 AMCresc
Conscripts don't need any sort of upgrade, that's how they were designed to be, always depend on the doctrine choice and inferior scaling in late game.

A lot of detractors here have valid points, even though I disagree. This is not a valid point though.

No faction should have a core unit that is 'designed to fail' so to speak. Core units like Infantry must remain relevant through the entire game.
26 Dec 2016, 03:30 AM
#37
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 378


A lot of detractors here have valid points, even though I disagree. This is not a valid point though.

No faction should have a core unit that is 'designed to fail' so to speak. Core units like Infantry must remain relevant through the entire game.



They are not designed to fail, it is your misconception of what purpose they serve and it's not only conscripts.
This debate existed even when the game was just out and it didn't change until now, there is a reason to that and this is because Soviets were designed like this.


Like I said, they just need to revert the nerf, they were very good before.
26 Dec 2016, 05:19 AM
#38
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Dec 2016, 03:30 AMCresc
They are not designed to fail, it is your misconception of what purpose they serve and it's not only conscripts.


jump backJump back to quoted post26 Dec 2016, 00:40 AMCresc
that's how they were designed to be ... inferior scaling in late game.


Sounds exactly like "designed to fail".
26 Dec 2016, 05:57 AM
#39
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

designed to support or complement.

dont 50% of sov commanders either have ppsh, shock or guards?
26 Dec 2016, 08:19 AM
#40
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

Continuing the path of buffing Soviet stock units will only lead in nerfing their doctrinal units, making them units that are seldom used and just add flavor...

We all have witnessed the problems from buffing Penal and the attempt to correct them by nerfing Guards....

Conscript might not be able to win the fights but they can win the war via attrition since the enemy needs to kill 3 for every 2 grenadier he loses just to keep up...
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