T1 viability

In 21st June Patch Penal where buffed as way to make T1 more viable and to add diversity to the game. A solution to diversity issue become a major balance issue.

Now efforts are focusing in fixing the Penal balance issue. But maybe that is not actually the issue we are going the wrong way about it.

Penal where actually pretty balance before the 21st June Patch.

Now one has to keep in mind that Soviets have more starting options than any other faction.
They can built infantry, built support weapon, make sniper vehicles semi elite infantry and its rather difficult to make all option equally attractive especially since the commanders are not equally balanced and some built work better with some commanders.

So part of the solution could be making some of the commander that provide support weapon like Dshk and M-42 more attractive and actually making T1 more viable with these commanders.

Another way to make T1 worth building or back teching is actually providing more utility and option that soviet luck.

For instance scouting abilities:
M3 could have it's fuel cost drop to 5 or removed, its DPS lowered, share veterancy, some sight bonus via veterancy and the ability of unit firing from it removed.

The new role/utility would be to spot, counter kubels, move troops behind enemy lines. Maybe have it a later upgrade to m3 HT quad (if possible) for fuel and MU so soviet can have AA with less MU investment.

Sniper team could get a Recon mode where they would change sight radius for no fire.(Or could even be purchased as recon squad without the sniper rifle for 280 and have the upgrade for 80)

Another idea for utility for T1 is to increase the Price of Soviet call in or their CP but allow them to be built in T1 with a discount to normal price or at their normal CP mitigating the cost of T1 if ones want to go heavy call-ins. Or T1 could offer some other bonuses to Call-in infantry allowing the to perform better like a reinforcement cost reduction, or grenades for call-in units could require either molotov upgrade or T1.



For Penal I ready have suggested Osstturpen approach...This approach has the benefit of not competing with Soviet call in infantry. Or simply revert to pre 21st June Patch Penals (probably without the flamer)

The good thing about these suggestion is that most of them are actually within the scope of the WBP...
Snipers have been changed M3 is a light vehicle and Panals also.

All the people still playing coh2 gave up on geting perfect balance.
this game will never be perfect or even close

instead of trying to make soviet T1 perfect, or even viable with ptrs penals, sticky satchel, ... WHY NOT FOCUS ON THE PRIORITIES ?

you already resolved 90% of big balance issue (usf mortar, double lmg, penals vet & flame, light vehicles,...)

remove penals flamethrower, nerf their veterancy and the rate they get it -> DONE.

people who want to go T1 will have to rely on guard doctrine or fast T3.

you can't "fix" the whole game with such a small scope...

Everyone will be already very happy if you finish to do the balance hotfix that relic couldn't do.

sorry for the copy pasta.

Can we stop making more and more threads about same f*cking problem ?

Can we stop making more and more threads about same f*cking problem ?

the other threads are bout penal not T1 viability which is actually the issue and not the Penals. I hardly mention Penal here on purpose...

Once more a fix for diversity (buffing Penals) turned into a serious balance issue, one should stop trying to fix the problem by only changing Penals.

FUCK SOVIET T1 STOP TALKING ABOUT IT THEY SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON THE WFA NOT FUCKING SOVIETS FUCK SOVIETS

No I'm not having a melt down it's getting fucking annoying.

FUCK SOVIET T1 STOP TALKING ABOUT IT THEY SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON THE WFA NOT FUCKING SOVIETS FUCK SOVIETS

No I'm not having a melt down it's getting fucking annoying.

Nope, they shouldn't. They should working on problems, which have been choosen by Relic for this patch.
P.S. Do you have problems with Soviets? It is not your first rage post about them.

I'm not sure why Vipper thinks she needs a special separate thread to discuss what she already attempted to talk about in a different thread. People disagreed there already, no need to have more people disagreeing here too.

I'm not sure why Vipper thinks she needs a special separate thread to discuss what she already attempted to talk about in a different thread. People disagreed there already, no need to have more people disagreeing here too.

Simply because the other thread are about Penal and this is about the other units in T1.

Simply because the other thread are about Penal and this is about the other units in T1.

Tomato, Tomato. People disagreed with you, no need to get another thread about the very old same just to get some attention.

Gonna put things on spoiler to make it more TL;DR

In 21st June Patch Penal where buffed...

Now efforts are focusing in fixing the Penal balance issue. But maybe that is not actually the issue we are going the wrong way about it.

Penal where actually pretty balance before the 21st June Patch.

No they weren't. No one wanting to REALLY win with SU bother going T1 on 1v1 and barely usable on 2v2+ (flamer clowncar against OKW).
Show Spoiler

They can built infantry, built support weapon, make sniper vehicles semi elite infantry and its rather difficult to make all option equally attractive especially since the commanders are not equally balanced and some built work better with some commanders.

That's both the strength and weakness of the SU faction design. When you have 21 commander which all of them share abilities, the one with the strongest combination for the current meta will be used.
We are moving from "every faction has bs units so it's balanced" and more towards a more fair environment although it's harder to achieve. Problem is when you nerf something into fair/slightly bad and you still have bs, then you completely forget about using it. Just to mention a few things which WERE heavily used: KV8, B4, 152 Howtizer, Shocks.

In 21st June Patch Penal where buffed as way to make T1 more viable and to add diversity to the game. A solution to diversity issue become a major balance issue.

Talking about viability of T1.

History:
M3:
Show Spoiler

Sniper:
Show Spoiler

Penals:
Show Spoiler

Modhat on:

Clear some post for flaming or offtopic