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Why patch should not overbuff/overnerf units anymore

29 Nov 2016, 02:20 AM
#21
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1467 | Subs: 4



This is an excellent test. I think that the reason this looks so bad is because of elevation. The change we introduced to the elevation-ignoring part makes it so that the projectile will not be "wasted" exploding short.

However, from the scatter pattern I can see in the video, the elevation does mess up with targeting and is causing it to scatter all over the place (i.e., much more than the nominal value). If you have enough time to test the following, it would really help us try to come up with a solution:
1. How would a live-version Stug-E perform at exactly the same spot (with the elevation)?
2. How does the mod-version Stug-E perform against conscript squads at the same distance, but on a completely flat terrain?

Once again, thanks for the time you have invested in it. I will try to investigate this as soon as possible.


Anything over a .5m offset does this FYI. He is on an elevated position compared to the infantry, so it is going to overshoot a ton, where as if he was lower on the .5m offset it would hit the ground or fire short.

This is the type of stuff that makes mapping insanely difficult, if the stugE does this, on that small of an incline... maps like Across the Rhine will be impossible to hit on.
29 Nov 2016, 04:23 AM
#22
avatar of LimaOscarMike

Posts: 440

how about make it work like barrage from Zis but low rate of fire and change it cost
29 Nov 2016, 04:45 AM
#23
avatar of Cruzz

Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2016, 01:12 AMCyanara


Ok, I just did a few tests myself. Videos will be edited in once uploaded. The 'good' news is that the live version appears to be just as broken, so it's probably not something you guys did yourselves. However, for that reason I can't understand why people think the live Stug-e is in any way good. I even tried attack ground and they still couldn't kill anything.


Protip:

The stug E spawned by cheatcommands II is the wrong, singleplayer version of the unit. Use the commander ability list in the mod to give you the ability to call-in the proper one.

You can check that I'm not talking bull by bringing up the health monitor on a stug e in the mod through selection --> health --> display table. The singleplayer version is stug_iii_e_sdfkz_141_1_mp, the multiplayer version is stug_iii_e_sdkfz_141_1_commander_mp
29 Nov 2016, 05:01 AM
#24
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 769 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2016, 04:45 AMCruzz


Protip:

The stug E spawned by cheatcommands II is the wrong, singleplayer version of the unit. Use the commander ability list in the mod to give you the ability to call-in the proper one.

You can check that I'm not talking bull by bringing up the health monitor on a stug e in the mod through selection --> health --> display table. The singleplayer version is stug_iii_e_sdfkz_141_1_mp, the multiplayer version is stug_iii_e_sdkfz_141_1_commander_mp


Ah, cheers. That explains a lot!
29 Nov 2016, 05:22 AM
#25
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

THE PLOT THICKENS!

...what, I'm too busy to bother testing it myself and learning to record it. But not enough to read here.
29 Nov 2016, 08:16 AM
#26
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2016, 02:20 AMTric


Anything over a .5m offset does this FYI. He is on an elevated position compared to the infantry, so it is going to overshoot a ton, where as if he was lower on the .5m offset it would hit the ground or fire short.

This is the type of stuff that makes mapping insanely difficult, if the stugE does this, on that small of an incline... maps like Across the Rhine will be impossible to hit on.


We reduced the offset of the Stug-E to 0 for the balance mod, actually, which explains my surprise as to why all these shots land so far.

I guess Cruzz came up with the answer D:
29 Nov 2016, 08:25 AM
#27
avatar of Tittendachs

Posts: 115

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2016, 04:45 AMCruzz


Protip:

The stug E spawned by cheatcommands II is the wrong, singleplayer version of the unit. Use the commander ability list in the mod to give you the ability to call-in the proper one.

You can check that I'm not talking bull by bringing up the health monitor on a stug e in the mod through selection --> health --> display table. The singleplayer version is stug_iii_e_sdfkz_141_1_mp, the multiplayer version is stug_iii_e_sdkfz_141_1_commander_mp


Thank you very much! It didnt make any sense beforehand...



This is an excellent test. I think that the reason this looks so bad is because of elevation. The change we introduced to the elevation-ignoring part makes it so that the projectile will not be "wasted" exploding short.

However, from the scatter pattern I can see in the video, the elevation does mess up with targeting and is causing it to scatter all over the place (i.e., much more than the nominal value). If you have enough time to test the following, it would really help us try to come up with a solution:
1. How would a live-version Stug-E perform at exactly the same spot (with the elevation)?
2. How does the mod-version Stug-E perform against conscript squads at the same distance, but on a completely flat terrain?

Once again, thanks for the time you have invested in it. I will try to investigate this as soon as possible.


I will do some further testing with the right Stug E from CheatCommandMod II this evening ;)
Thank you for taking time to explain it to me :)
By the way consider the AT-grenade to be on coodown when AT-partisans spawn from buildings... it's saves people who make the wrong tech descision and is simply too strong imo.
29 Nov 2016, 08:31 AM
#28
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17


I will do some further testing with the right Stug E from CheatCommandMod II this evening ;)
Thank you for taking time to explain it to me :)
By the way consider the AT-grenade to be on coodown when AT-partisans spawn from buildings... it's saves people who make the wrong tech descision and is simply too strong imo.


Infiltration units, and partisans, in particular, are something we definitely want to look at. Unfortunately, not enough people stamped those issues out in the survey as high priority, thus we have to wait a bit for it. Hopefully for the new update of the balance preview mod.

Bear in mind that we do not want to change too many things at once. Changing everything at once will confuse the playerbase as to what we want them to be testing. This is because a broad mind lacks focus.
29 Nov 2016, 08:50 AM
#29
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Bear in mind that we do not want to change too many things at once. Changing everything at once will confuse the playerbase as to what we want them to be testing. This is because a broad mind lacks focus.

I dunno, I'm pretty sure women can be focused, judging by all the times' my mother's nagged me.
29 Nov 2016, 09:00 AM
#30
avatar of CartoonVillain

Posts: 474

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Nov 2016, 08:50 AMVuther

I dunno, I'm pretty sure women can be focused, judging by all the times' my mother's nagged me.


29 Nov 2016, 10:02 AM
#31
avatar of Tittendachs

Posts: 115



Infiltration units, and partisans, in particular, are something we definitely want to look at. Unfortunately, not enough people stamped those issues out in the survey as high priority, thus we have to wait a bit for it. Hopefully for the new update of the balance preview mod.

Bear in mind that we do not want to change too many things at once. Changing everything at once will confuse the playerbase as to what we want them to be testing. This is because a broad mind lacks focus.


silly me thought AT-partisans and light vehicles is the same topic?! why would anybody look at these as seperate things to handle? you cant nerf light vehicles without adjusting their immediate counter units as well...
29 Nov 2016, 10:11 AM
#32
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17



silly me thought AT-partisans and light vehicles is the same topic?! why would anybody look at these as seperate things to handle? you cant nerf light vehicles without adjusting their immediate counter units as well...



29 Nov 2016, 11:24 AM
#33
avatar of Janne252
Admin Black Badge
Patrion 15

Posts: 3421 | Subs: 11

Dropping a message here to let you guys know the spawnable Stug E blueprint has been changed to the "stug_iii_e_sdkfz_141_1_commander_mp" as suggested by Cruzz.
29 Nov 2016, 11:24 AM
#34
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

yeah we should not change unit stats because most of the allied roster is overperforming while axis are underperforming..just want say you want allies being op
29 Nov 2016, 21:19 PM
#35
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

I would like to point out again that the issue of the thread is not Stug-E

(and once more the easiest, and more accurate way to fix the weapon of stug-e is to model around the gun of M8a1 as explosive and not ballistic which fill fix all elevation issues)

29 Nov 2016, 22:16 PM
#36
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 927

grenadiers still are gonna get stomped by riflemen and tommies... didnt the survey show grenadier was the nr 1 priority? They didn't even recieve a single buff except their "useful" healing ability.
29 Nov 2016, 22:47 PM
#37
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1217

I think it´s pretty senseless to discuss only the current early game changes. Allies naturally have better early game than Axis which compensates later. Of course they have to perform better with their infantry. You can´t expect US infantry to be only on par with Ostheer when they don´t have tanks on the level of other factions lategame vehicles.

That being said what are you working on for the lategame?
30 Nov 2016, 00:21 AM
#38
avatar of Nubb3r

Posts: 141


[...] This is because a broad mind lacks focus.


That's one nice way to put it. What an adorable phrase. I think I will say this to my teammates from now on.
30 Nov 2016, 00:48 AM
#39
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2016, 00:21 AMNubb3r


That's one nice way to put it. What an adorable phrase. I think I will say this to my teammates from now on.

I just read it's a 40K line. When I first saw it, I thought "Heh, sounds like a 40K line" but assumed my first instinct was wrong.
30 Nov 2016, 01:22 AM
#40
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2016, 00:48 AMVuther

I just read it's a 40K line. When I first saw it, I thought "Heh, sounds like a 40K line" but assumed my first instinct was wrong.

"An open mind is like a fortress; it's gates unbarred and unguarded"
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