Winter Balance Preview Changelog

yay. more nerfs for OKW.
Barely any buff to rektheer.

Raketen needs no buffs, it needs people to learn how to use it. And actually it got a not deserved indirect buff with nerfs to all allied light vehicles.

Raketen cant do its job (destroy tanks) when its get wipe out by a single shot from tanks (sherman, t34, Comet, etc) or are easy and fast get killed by infantery...while other AT gun can stay much longer vs tanks.

plus: raketen aim too long
plus: raketen hit often the ground
plus: i dont need a camo at...i need a good at since volks dont do much vs armor and my armor can easy take out by piat/ptrs/zook bloobs and very good buffed Tank hunters (SU, Firefly,M10, M36) firefly can destroy every heavy tank in under 7sec...

Raketen cant do its job (destroy tanks) when its get wipe out by a single shot from tanks (sherman, t34, Comet, etc) or are easy and fast get killed by infantery...while other AT gun can stay much longer vs tanks.

plus: raketen aim too long
plus: raketen hit often the ground
plus: i dont need a camo at...i need a good at since volks dont do much vs armor and my armor can easy take out by piat/ptrs/zook bloobs and very good buffed Tank hunters (SU, Firefly,M10, M36) firefly can destroy every heavy tank in under 7sec...

+1

Raketen cant do its job (destroy tanks) when its get wipe out by a single shot from tanks (sherman, t34, Comet, etc) or are easy and fast get killed by infantery...while other AT gun can stay much longer vs tanks.

plus: raketen aim too long
plus: raketen hit often the ground
plus: i dont need a camo at...i need a good at since volks dont do much vs armor and my armor can easy take out by piat/ptrs/zook bloobs and very good buffed Tank hunters (SU, Firefly,M10, M36) firefly can destroy every heavy tank in under 7sec...

If you are trying to counter tank destroyer spam with heavy tanks, you are the only one to blame. Raketens are better choice, can creep up the range in camo and TDs do nothing to them.

AI Tanks are just as able to kill raketen as any other AT gun, or rather less, becouse other AT guns can't retreat.

If your raketen hits ground too much and you don't need camo at the moment, put it inside garrison, it misses close to never from them, even snipes infantry if you let it shoot. And just like in case of maxim, it gets better firing cone.

If you need really hard non-doc AT for the late game, you have the best non-doc TD in the form of jp4. Give it a try, its amazing I asure you.

And don't give me "jp4 is in last tier" please. For earlier AT that is great for supplementing raketens and shrecks against medium rushes, you still have the newly AT buffed puma. Or simply enough, some mines...

very good buffed Tank hunters (SU, Firefly,M10, M36) firefly can destroy every heavy tank in under 7sec...

Show me a replay where 1 or maybe 2 Jacksons take out a Tiger I/II under 7 seconds..Plz, I'm really curious.

strongest mortar: soviet

If you claim that by far the weakest mortar, if not unit generally, in whole game, is the strongest, I really have nothing more to say to you and sadly, I doubt anybody can help you at this point

Show me a replay where 1 or maybe 2 Jacksons take out a Tiger I/II under 7 seconds..Plz, I'm really curious.

I said Firefly can do this...

If you claim that by far the weakest mortar, if not unit generally, in whole game, is the strongest, I really have nothing more to say to you and sadly, I doubt anybody can help you at this point

read till end...there is a sec allie mortar...

Raketen needs no buffs, it needs people to learn how to use it. And actually it got a not deserved indirect buff with nerfs to all allied light vehicles.

where did I say raketen need a buff...?

I said Firefly can do this...

So how can a Firefly kill a Tiger or KT kill under 7 seconds? Question is still standing, no allied TD are that OP to kill every vehicle/tank in 1 shot. And FYI, FF's reload time is 8 seconds.

So how can a Firefly kill a Tiger or KT kill under 7 seconds? Question is still standing, no allied TD are that OP to kill every vehicle/tank in 1 shot. And FYI, FF's reload time is 8 seconds.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/56469/tank-destroyer-time-to-kill-stats

vs King Tiger


Firefly (Tulip) 66.25 - 91.00 31.50 - 44.00 16.75 - 25.00 6.50 - 12.75

So how can a Firefly kill a Tiger or KT kill under 7 seconds? Question is still standing, no allied TD are that OP to kill every vehicle/tank in 1 shot. And FYI, FF's reload time is 8 seconds.

He means Tulips, obviously.

I wouldn´t touch TDs. What is needed is a penetration increase on the Panzer IV, a reload buff on the Panther (+ OKW stats for the Ostheer Panther) and a slight frontal armor buff to the Tiger I and we are good.

https://www.coh2.org/topic/56469/tank-destroyer-time-to-kill-stats

vs King Tiger


Firefly (Tulip) 66.25 - 91.00 31.50 - 44.00 16.75 - 25.00 6.50 - 12.75

I wrote the line you are referencing. However if you open your eyes and read the table more carefully you will realise that to achieve a 7 second kill time if all of the following hold true at the same time:
- You have two Fireflies
- Both Fireflies are Vet3
- Both Fireflies are upgraded with Tulips
- All four Tulips hit the target
- Both Fireflies successfully manage to land 2 penetrating hits each

Now, can you please stop creating noise in this thread? The team and I would like to monitor the thread for constructive comments about things that are within the scope of the patch.

Miragefla, I'd like to make a suggestion, if it was not made earlier (I didn't bother to read all these pages right now). I saw the medkit changes, and I think it's great. BUT, could we please think about price change? Maybe 15 ammo, just to bring it closer to the medpack that sturms put on the ground.

Cheers!

Some changes are still questionable and I am glad to see the modders evaluating these. I don't think the Stug E should have a TWP ability at all. This is an AI tank, with the ability to support against light vehicles, it should not function as a crappy AI tank with the ability to stun other vehicles. A barrage may be more in line with its actual design and would help it last into the late game by keeping it further back at times.

Noted. We have also seen a similar proposal by Vipper, and I think that adding a barrage ability is a very neat idea.

The only reason we really picked on the Stug-E is because its damage model and AoE is very similar to the T-70. Thus, finding the solution for the one means that we can immediately apply the same solution to the other.

Sniper changes are very powerful, will have to play and see how these work out. Significantly impacts Wehrmacht more since they have so much sunk when they go into an early sniper strat.

Guards may be a bit overnerfed here. They are clearly over performing for cost now, but this takes them back quite a bit and nearly demands the use of merge for them to stay cost effective.

Note that even though the call-in cost for the Guards has changed, their reinforcement cost has remained 27MP/model.

Personally, I feel it is alright if elite units cost more to call-in than they cost to reinforce (like the PGren pricing model). The idea is that you take a risk when calling the unit in, and your risk will pay off once you have achieved vetting.

If guards feel too weak, I doubt that this is because of Ostheer infantry scaling. There is a 5th faction in the game that hasn't received changes to their infantry yet. That's because we are trying to estimate where the balance will shift.

Our strategy is use Ostheer infantry as the gold standard, and adapt allied armies around that. If an army gets paper tanks, they should obviously get better infantry than wermacht.

Reverting armies' powercreep and rebalancing around the gold standard will take a bit of time, and it might be a bit painful. We also expect that this will lead to a temporary power spike, until we can adjust all armies' veterancy. However, once this is done, we are confident that this will take the game to a better place than it is currently.

PG's with G43's is a tough nut to crack. Does giving all of them G43's (as Machine suggested) work? The idea of a sniper squad was really nice, but predictably unfair, but good thinking to try. Could PG's with G43's also be offered an activated suppression ability at some munition cost? This would help them in their role of AI and infantry flanking, while also providing a more nuanced way to upgrade their power. [Thinking something along line of G43 from COH1]

Agreed. The changes to the G43's were one of the first changes we came up with. Even though, as I mentioned, we are rebalancing infantry scaling around Ostheer, we feel that Ostheer fans might be feeling a bit disappointed that their faction is receiving so few changes.

It is a very hard sell to try to explain to someone that a faction has been strengthened, because other factions have been nerfed. That's why our first thoughts were about, at least, doing a spring clean of completely useless Ostheer infantry-related commanders and abilities.

On the other hand, we realised that we were becoming to get overwhelmed by Light Vehicle changes. Due to the scope of these changes we expect a very bumpy ride as the meta realigns to the new role of Light Vehicles. Since this part of the game is receiving the biggest amount of changes, we want the people to actually focus on the early-mid game progression, so that we can get it right.

Thus, we decided to cut down all unnecessary doctrinal changes, unless they are touching an extremely OP unit (e.g., the Stug-E), or unless we are making a very conservative change (e.g., USF M3 halftrack, G43's).

Once all infantry veterancy is sorted, then I think we can jump back and redo the G43 upgrade so that it gives a true role-changer/edge at something. As things are, though, the ground beneath infantry balance is still shifting, and it's too early to make such an assessment. At least with the sight-range upgrade, G43's on PGrens will not be completely useless.

This is also, probably, why you aren't going to see any changes done to the Greyhound just yet.

Good stuff

Great, thanks for taking the time.

I know your hands are partially tied here, and making changes is hard, but I appreciate how much work you have already down and I think the game will be much improved as a result.