If the USF mortar stays (and smoke bug fixed)the riflemen smoke needs to go (and riflemen should probably have their DPS lowered).
The smoke for riflemen and the mortar makes HMG easily countered and thus it should become available via:
Elite infantry adding utility and making them more desirable
Doctrine could replace fire-up or be available with it
available to LT for free adding utility and making him more desirable
Riflemen smoke
17 Nov 2016, 17:04 PM
#1
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
17 Nov 2016, 17:20 PM
#2
Posts: 680
Smoke is fun, cant see any point of giving factions less options. It will be better when they nerf the mortar.
17 Nov 2016, 17:34 PM
#3
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Smoke is fun, cant see any point of giving factions less options. It will be better when they nerf the mortar.
If it is fun they the rest of the factions should have equal chances for fun and should have smoke available to their mainline infantry...
Actually smoke is good but is should available to other units and not mainline infantry, as ti makes those units redundant why use the slow smoke or mortars (not the USF bugged one) if it is available from mainline infantry?
Riflemen are OP and that was fine as long as they had cost inefficient support weapon. Once their support weapons become cost efficient the riflemen cost efficiency needs to go down smoke is good place to start...
17 Nov 2016, 17:47 PM
#4
Posts: 955
If it is fun they the rest of the factions should have equal chances for fun and should have smoke available to their mainline infantry...
Actually smoke is good but is should available to other units and not mainline infantry...
Riflemen are OP and that was fine as long as they had cost inefficient support weapon. Once their support weapons become cost efficient the riflemen cost efficiency needs to go down smoke is good place to start...
Rifles have to close in to the enemy (or pay a sh@itload or ammo) to fight effectively + cost a lot more... so its fair that they have the smoke
"Nice. Very impressive. Now let´s see Paul Allen´s playercard."
17 Nov 2016, 18:08 PM
#5
1 
Posts: 2885
Can't we just have quick setup, high RoF, low damage and AoE usf mortar that excells at smoking and give usf the right to be THE smoke faction?
17 Nov 2016, 18:23 PM
#6
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Can't we just have quick setup, high RoF, low damage and AoE usf mortar that excells at smoking and give usf the right to be THE smoke faction?
In that case smoke grenades on riflemen would be redundant and it can be removed as explain in OP.
17 Nov 2016, 18:44 PM
#7
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
So in other words... We wanted shitty mortar with smoke so people would actually have option between going nades/mortar and now you're saying that since there is a mortar, smoke nades should be taken away?
That Logic
That Logic
17 Nov 2016, 18:46 PM
#8
1 Posts: 2885
In that case smoke grenades on riflemen would be redundant and it can be removed as explain in OP.
No. In that case you can either go for a mortar, that costs you a chunk of manpower and is rather weak, but excells at supporting attacks with smoke, or you can choose to pay for costly fuel based upgrade to get the smoke and granages on all squads, but with additional muni cost per use. These are two different, valid choices and it is good to have a choice of build order in an rts. This is what makes the game interesting...
17 Nov 2016, 20:04 PM
#9
Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2
Or just give OKW access to smoke so it's all fair play for everybody, since OKW is the only faction denied of smoke for some Relican reason.
17 Nov 2016, 20:23 PM
#10
Posts: 181
Give Ostheer the Panzer III and Puma. It is possible to kill the stuart/Aec/T70 with a teller or pak. But players should be given realistic options. Decisions decisions, it is an RTS and giving players various options is what makes the game interesting. Also allow grenadiers to upgrade to 2x LMG42s, choices choices.
Give OKW cheaper medium vehicles, a 120mm Mortar and allow double upgrades, choices, choices.
Give OKW cheaper medium vehicles, a 120mm Mortar and allow double upgrades, choices, choices.
17 Nov 2016, 21:25 PM
#11
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
So in other words... We wanted shitty mortar with smoke so people would actually have option between going nades/mortar and now you're saying that since there is a mortar, smoke nades should be taken away?
That Logic
What I am saying is if one want to bring faction closer to one another, one should not only buff they weakness of faction but also nerf the strengths.
In this case riflemen where OP but that was ok because their support weapons where UP. Now that they have access to a no tech mortar they should be nerfed and since smoke grenades are restricted to elite infantry for other faction it is good place to start.
...These are two different, valid choices and it is good to have a choice of build order in an rts. This is what makes the game interesting...
And I did not say that the option for infantry smoke should be removed for USF. I said that it should be more limited to things like doctrinal, elite infantry and LT...the option are still there and gives reason to diversify and not just built riflemen riflemen riflemen.
19 Nov 2016, 21:48 PM
#12
Posts: 1891
rifle smoke should be an upgrade unique to the squad and not a global research upgrade, the ability to churn out vet0 rifles in the mid to late game that can basically become invincible and invalidate support weapons for 15 muni is retarded.
even with a 4 rifle build 25 fuel to get smoke on all of the rifles is way too cheap, but cost nerfing the global upgrade is kind of dumb because it is punishing. 10 fuel to unlock grenades on a given rifle or LT squad, AT rifle nade unlocked upon teching up and not vet 1. there you go, USF grenade woes are gone.
Then it would work similar to the battle equipment upgrade on Guardians in DoW2.
even with a 4 rifle build 25 fuel to get smoke on all of the rifles is way too cheap, but cost nerfing the global upgrade is kind of dumb because it is punishing. 10 fuel to unlock grenades on a given rifle or LT squad, AT rifle nade unlocked upon teching up and not vet 1. there you go, USF grenade woes are gone.
Then it would work similar to the battle equipment upgrade on Guardians in DoW2.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
19 Nov 2016, 22:25 PM
#13
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
Rifles itself are fine.
Double weapons and ridikulousvet bonuses are bad
Double weapons and ridikulousvet bonuses are bad
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