How to fix: OKW

Give 'em a sniper.

OKW needs less expensive tanks. 150 fuel Panzer IV is insane lol. 200 fuel Panther, my god.

Its the same with the su85. Why get it? It is very expensive to get, you can have 2 or more cheaper su76s in an earlier tier that can do its job and have barrage ability.

The price is fair for all the tanks. Reason is +2 levels of vet, which gives you a better scaling into the game on the longer run. And Pz4 has the skirts already, which means it has more armour than the Ostheer Pz4.

Price is fine.

Personally I think this is a problem with other factions. We don't want to make the OKW super duper good at countering light vehicles IMO, but we don't want OKW to get curb-stomped either. What I personally think should be implemented for stuart and t70 is a side tech. I could talk about this more if we were to make another thread about USF, I just wanted to start out with OKW because it's less emotionally charging and disputed than changes for USF and Ostheer.

I do have the feeling that OKW is in the right cornor for countering light verhicles. Yesterday I did a 1v1 and I always go for a rakketten after 3 volks, just because of the fact that the allies can get early lv's. But the cloack gives the suprise effect, where in most of the cases I can take the lv out, because it's running into it's arc that far. Perhaps a faster aim/reload would make it more competent in dealing with verhicles overall.

1v1 is all ok with the armys. The big problem is 2v2 against allies. Their synagien are much more potent than from axis.

The weakness from brits will be perfect compensate by soviet/ usf.

axis have good speacialist..but the reality is u need a puma and a luchs to deal with tanks and infantery.
allies need only one spamabel car which dan deal with both.....this mean u need less micro, less ressources, less place to move them (luchs and puma block themself very often on much maps).

infantery: usf/brits/soviet need only upgraded rifles/IS/guards to deal with all axis units. give 4-5 rifles a zook and a lmg..and u can fight all units from axis.

as axis u need much more skill and micro to fight a allie player.

or why was the most player better with a allie faxction? get more skil through magic moments? no..its only easy to play them.

1) Once 2 truck deployed allow medic in base sector.
reason: Medic for OKW is way to expensive.

2) change ST44 upgrade.
reason: it upsets relative position of V.G. with K98 VG are good long range weak mid to close, with ST44 there weakness is gone.
Possible solution give:
a) they ST44 are fire semi automatic but have the ability to fire full auto for 30-60 sec for an MU cost
b) upgrade give them 5 G43 moving there optimal range to mid (less dps far)

3) remove sandbags from VG.
Reason: They are too powerful with ST44 to be able to create cover. SP can have it instead.

4) Replace flame grenade of V.G. with a normal fragmentation grenade.
Reason: mainline infantry should not have anti-garrison weapon available to them these weapon should be available to specialized units. Give flame grenade to SP, JLIR, P.F., FJ. Utility open the road to using more unit types.

5) Allow S.O. to vet as other units give him a smoke ability
reason: all units should scale okw need access to smoke.

6)increase Leig performance VS garrison either thru better better modifier or via W.P. ability. Give it smoke.
Reason: OKW need better counter vs Garrison

7)Change the role of the AAHT to that of a soft medium tank counter.remove minimum range
Reason: With hmg the role of suppression is no-longer needed while the role of soft counter to vehicles when going T1 is needed. Increase penetration make untargetable to Stuart blind ability.

8)Fix retreat for RW, make RW in trench fire 360, give bonus range to RW when in garrison, give veternacy bonuses when in cover (generally fix veterancy bonuses).
Reason: garrison for RW is bad since all bonuses are related to cloak, the performance of the unit is inconstant since it UP bellow vet 3 and OP after that.

9) Increase Luch performance vs cover and especially vs Garrison
reason: luch should be a viable option to counter garrison without Leig.

10) reduce the cost of Ober. Maybe make them available when 2 truck are deployed.
Reason: unit is way to expensive.

11) JP fix camo fix, vet 5 bonus damage, reduce pop chose a role of either a meduim counter of a heavy tank counter.
Reason: Camo make JP OP, has a very high pop when stug/su-76 has a pop of 8. If Jp is a counter to medium is should be cheaper, If it is a counter to heavy it needs more penetration.

Doctrinal

12)Make hetzer more mobile. give it more D.O.T.
Reason hetzer can not defend vs vehicle but it less mobile than most of them. Has very low DPS increase DOT with make it more useful without being OP.

13)Fix LeHF veterancy bonuses so that it about equal at vet 3 with an Ostheer one.

14) change the shape of zeroing artillery from circle to rectangular give vision to area adjust damage if needed.
reason: A rectangular shape will work better as area denial. Vision is needed because currently the ability is UP without a recon from ally and UP with recon from ally.

15) Fix Panzer commander to be closer to to UKF tank commanders. Fix arty call in.
Reason: the ability UP when compared to UKF commanders especially since one is giving up a Hmg. Arty is UP it should either be cheaper or significantly better.

16) Signal array to expensive.
reason: is UP it sould either be passive or work like UKF hammer "vehicle trucking"

17) Emergency repair is UP
reason: USF and UKF have far better repair options. Make it work like UKF repair but for 1 vehicle.

18) If elite armored is reworked one could probably tone down the ST maybe give it 2 types of MU. HE vs infantry with low penetration and some deflection damage, AP vs vehicles and emplacements more penetration no infantry critical better damage Vs brace.

12)Make hetzer more mobile. give it more D.O.T.
Reason hetzer can not defend vs vehicle but it less mobile than most of them. Has very low DPS increase DOT with make it more useful without being OP.

Imo the main problem with the Hetzer is that it comes in too late at 8cp, when the enemy already has medium tanks on the field. It needs to have the cp requirements reduced to like 6, since it's basically a shittier Ostwind.

Imo the main problem with the Hetzer is that it comes in too late at 8cp, when the enemy already has medium tanks on the field. It needs to have the cp requirements reduced to like 6, since it's basically a shittier Ostwind.

Even with lower CP it will still be UP since it slower than most vehicles and has little DPS. It could use lower CP but that would probably not be enough...

Hetzer is a peace of shit...no one will buy it...even the flamer halftrack is much better and comes earlier and is better usable in town cause if speed and angel of flamers ..

Hetzer is a peace of shit...no one will buy it...even the flamer halftrack is much better and comes earlier and is better usable in town cause if speed and angel of flamers ..

And that is, while the 251/16 is absolute rubbish compared to any of the Allied flame vehicles. Theoretically you could use it better in cities than the Hetzer due to the "turret", but in reality you can't use it at all because it gets outclassed by the infantry it is supposed to fight. All 251-based vehicles in the game right now are fucking rubbish and are only bought because nothing better is available...

yeah..222 and the ohter light tanks from ost should be immun vs hand weapons and rifles

Another idea would be to rework truck.

1) Truck have less HP when deployed.

2) Trucks placed in base are cheaper and come with medics, repair, and AA.

3) Trucks placed outside base are more expensive.

4) Trucks placed outside base have to buy their utility (medic, repair and normal range for AA/penetration)(FRP and heal merged for medic truck) but buying the upgrade increase HP.

This way OKW player can chose if he want to use trucks aggressively or as simple production buildings and how many resources he want to invest on trucks.

The price is fair for all the tanks. Reason is +2 levels of vet, which gives you a better scaling into the game on the longer run. And Pz4 has the skirts already, which means it has more armour than the Ostheer Pz4.

Price is fine.

Price is fair? T34-85 is cheaper. Same goes for Ostheer, Ost p4 is 125 fuel, yet cromwell is only 110 but is a better tank. T34-85 is right around the corner again.

All what OKW needs is LIEG smoke, any other buff will make it OP, the concept of OKW is clear : survive early mid game and rest at late game with superior armor and 5 vet squads

Idk about buffs but I think that sturmpionners as starting unit is a quite strong. It wins 1v1 100% against any unit, requires opponent to draw more forces to deal with them, while mobile kubel captures everything

It wins 1v1 100% against any unit,...

It does not, most unit can beat it in long range fight...SP can take serious damage trying to close in especially in red cover...

I would personally love to see a buff to the HT, it should have the ability for armor piercing rounds for a muni cost, so it is more potent against lights. This would give you more options as well and reward people who can keep the thing alive, since it dies to a wet noodle.

I would also like the medic and engineer upgrades to not be locked to specific trucks. AKA, after you build a truck, be it battlegroup, mech, or tier 4, you can CHOOSE what upgrade you want, but can only select one.

Want to rush mech and get healing? BOOM problem solved for the same cost, this would also allow you to build battlegroup into tier 4 and give tier 4 mechs.

The functionality would be similar to vcoh brits with the increased resources upgrade.

These are just some things that would be nice to see.

I would also like the medic and engineer upgrades to not be locked to specific trucks. AKA, after you build a truck, be it battlegroup, mech, or tier 4, you can CHOOSE what upgrade you want, but can only select one.

I like it!

There are some nice ideas here. I'll have to edit OP to add them all in.

My three biggest gripes when playing OKW are:
- Lack of smoke
- Lack of healing, unless MedHQ or Vet1 Sturmpioneers
- Lack of tools to dislodge a Maxim spammer (especially in teamgames), except for artillery piece spam (which I find boring)

When facing maxim spam, it is next to impossible to get Sturmpioneers to vet1. Thus, you either bite the bullet and go MechHQ (while bleeding to death), or you go MedHQ and spam ISGs (while getting bored to death). And, god forbid if the map is dominated by a garrison that the Maxim occupies.

My solution to this would be:
- Give Sturmpioneers a high-cooldown (say 60 seconds) short-range smoke grenade ability, and take it from there.

are you serious??? so OKW has a tool that work nice againts maxim spammers, but you want to give sturmpioneers smoke just because you find using leigs boring??? LOL.

and then, yeah, your solution is to give smoke to spios, LOL, the OKW squad with more utilities, another one added, great man.

are you serious??? so OKW has a tool that work nice againts maxim spammers, but you want to give sturmpioneers smoke just because you find using leigs boring??? LOL.

and then, yeah, your solution is to give smoke to spios, LOL, the OKW squad with more utilities, another one added, great man.

The way I see it, if somebody goes maxim spam and manages to secure the critical garrison in all the decent gamemodes, the only options for OKW are:
- ISG spam (artillery)
- Stuka, to at least pull down the garrisons (artillery).

Thus, if the Soviet player goes Maxim spam, that only leaves the OKW player with only one single type of playing; artillery. That is way too predictable and lame.

If I wanted my playstyle to restrict my opponents and make their playing predictable, I wouldn't even bother with multiplayer. I would just stick with CPU stomp.

As for sturmpioneers, of course they need to give up some utility to get smoke grenades; duh. They don't even have enough space in their UI currently to add a new ability anyway.

I've already enumerated all (rather the only) option that OKW has vs MG spam. Would you be as kind to fill up the various types of playstyles (not units) available to the other factions to counter MG spam?

OST - ?
Soviets - ?
USF - ?
UKF - ?

When you start start filling up the number of options for these factions, perhaps you are going to realise why OKW feels like such a chore to play against a decent MG spammer.