Market ruins

And that's the point.

If someone knows what problems Ostheer has and knowing that it won't change, why introduce such maps?

Maybe it will make relic realize their balance is shit and fix it, until then I am going to make maps that are fresh, and not soviet farmland. Maybe relic will give you more vetoes, maybe they wont, maybe they'll balance the game, maybe they wont.

Also my "go make your own map" statement holds true. If you think you can do better, than by all means, go do it. Go make the clone of a map, I'll be sure to give "feedback" about how OST is awful on it because of the map, not because it is a weak faction.

It holds nothing.

Imagine you hired guys to build you a house becasue you are not builder.

They made you a house but each wall is curved, ceiling is crooked etc etc.

Would you make better house? Of course not but it does not change the fact that you can see errors.

____

You really think that introducing maps which make Ostheer problems even bigger will force Relic to do anything about it?

That's another level of blind faith

There too many things to fix about Ostheer vs closed city maps.

Come on guys just stop this.

Australian magic, if you don't like the map just veto it. Wher is a weak faction now.

Tric thanks for puting new maps ingame.

Come on guys just stop this.

Australian magic, if you don't like the map just veto it. Wher is a weak faction now.

Tric thanks for puting new maps ingame.

I did but the problem is, now I have to veto 3 new maps (would like to veto four) so I need to use for it 1 veto I used before for other maps - which means, no matter what I have to have in map poll maps which I hardly dislike or which are really hard for Ostheer.

Still I don't get why so many closed-city maps?
6 new maps:
Essen, Refinery, Market, Caen*
Westwall - really good map with open space as well as close combat sections.
Forest - still haven't played.

*It's city map but way better for balance than other.

So 6 maps - 4 city maps, 1 half city (really good one), 1 I havent tested.

See if you sir, had half a brain.

From players, far above and beyond your skill level,

and one of the best mappers in the scene (monolithic) doesn't play automatch, or this game, next to at all.

And funnily enough, no CQ maps from him for 1v1.

The problem is, retards, erm people, like you,

A pleasure talking with you as always.

PS: Those people that say your an egotistical self centred narcissistic arsehole don't know what their talking about.

And funnily enough, no CQ maps from him for 1v1.



A pleasure talking with you as always.

PS: Those people that say your an egotistical self centred narcissistic arsehole don't know what their talking about.

Read your post out loud, then say that I didn't respond to you correctly. Also go read the actual feedback posts, where people that were actually constructive got agreed with and generally treated like a human.

Read your post out loud, then say that I didn't respond to you correctly. Also go read the actual feedback posts, where people that were actually constructive got agreed with and generally treated like a human.

The level of hypocrisy from you is obscene.

To answer your first statement about responding correctly, no, you most certainly did not.

My post focused upon the issue of Ostheer being disadvantaged by some map designs in particular CQ maps. I believe 100%, that I am justified in asking if mapmakers, some of who do not play automatch(as you have repeatedly stated on your stream) and think the balance is shit (as you have repeatedly stated on your stream) should be allowed to use maps to influence how the game is played simply because the current meta bores them.

I am not making any judgement of any mapmakers ability to play the game, nor am I questioning their mapmaking ability, nor the effort they have made in producing maps, but I am most certainly questioning if a select group of people have the right to make changes to a game mode
(1v1 automatch) given that they may not even play that mode with any regularity. Why do you believe you have the right to decide for others. This is ideology and it is selfish. That is my issue.

Your reply was dismissive, condescending and almost entirely about you and the process of mapmaking. It did not in any way address anything that I spoke about, rather you focussed upon rebuffing the perceived insult though the use of scorn and overwhelming arrogance.

As to your second statement, your simply kidding yourself. Yes, you may have been more civil in replying to others but you have not conceded any, and I do mean any points. In your opinion, everyone is simply wrong, or stupid, or noobs or refuse to change. You say you are trying to add variety to the game, and in a way, that is correct. But it is forced and it is restrictive. Ostheer will certainly play differently on CQ maps and may even be competitive but a lot of options are forcibly removed. So have you really added variety because every CQ map will be played the same.

As to the hypocrisy, well that is simple. You abuse people all the time. I have actually engaged in conversation with you before, on your stream, in the shout it box and I have been polite and civil on all occasions. You on the other hand have alway been dismissive, arrogant and abusive, which in a way, on some occasion is tolerable as it is your way. But please do not play the victim, and complain about not being treated like a human being when someone runs outta patience and throws your bullshit back in you face with interest.

Ps: I've been checking out some of your stream replays, interesting stuff, really gave me a good old laugh. So glad to be such a hot topic of discussion.

Just chill out Trick, haters gonna hate and oswinds gonna oswindate. Nothing will change, ever

Ps: I've been checking out some of your stream replays, interesting stuff, really gave me a good old laugh. So glad to be such a hot topic of discussion.

What is funny, is that people agreed with me...

You do you bb. I'll keep being dismissive and arrogant, along with all in my stream, that give feedback there, or help shape maps, such as you do, oh wait. All you do is complain, you say Im playing the victim. You don't even have the mental fortitude to be "here are the issues" here are the things I don't agree with. You do understand that it wasn't just simply me going yup, these are the maps going in, it was a team of 6 people. That all agreed, that are all looking for the same thing in different ways. I bet you are one of the idiots that thinks that all the maps are mine, as much of the community does. LMFAO

No, I simply refuse to listen to people that can't give feedback without being an emotional mess with underlying insults. Sorry, not sorry. Nothing in your posts were constructive in the least, and do nothing except show that you are unhappy and not being able to contribute to things yourself, perhaps if you learned what "constructive" actually meant, you would be heard. Instead, you won't be. Cheers.

What is funny, is that people agreed with me...

So you have a fan club. Well done.

You do you bb. I'll keep being dismissive and arrogant, along with all in my stream, that give feedback there, or help shape maps, such as you do, oh wait. All you do is complain, you say Im playing the victim. You don't even have the mental fortitude to be "here are the issues" here are the things I don't agree with. You do understand that it wasn't just simply me going yup, these are the maps going in, it was a team of 6 people. That all agreed, that are all looking for the same thing in different ways. I bet you are one of the idiots that thinks that all the maps are mine, as much of the community does. LMFAO

No, I simply refuse to listen to people that can't give feedback without being an emotional mess with underlying insults. Sorry, not sorry. Nothing in your posts were constructive in the least, and do nothing except show that you are unhappy and not being able to contribute to things yourself, perhaps if you learned what "constructive" actually meant, you would be heard. Instead, you won't be. Cheers.

As i said to rommel, the reason i have not given any indepth feedback on new maps is because i have not played them enough. Maps are like patches in that time is required (in most instances) to make an informed decision. Your maps are the most CQ of the six, that is a fact, and playing them extensively will not change that.

You simply ignore or just don't understand the points i am making, instead taking everything I say as a personal insult. You have not once asked me for any opinion or engaged with any civility. Rather you have ranted and raged and lectured and flung insults like a petulant child.

As i have said before, my issue is you want to influence how the game is played even though you do not play automatch. If it all goes to shit you can just walk away, play your custom games or go back to making maps, no skin off your back. Meanwhile those that play automatch have to suffer the consequences.

Had you asked the community "Hey guys, whats your thoughts on CQ maps for 1v1 automatch" and got a positive response from ost players then I would say fair enough, its what people want. If you actively played automatch, and played Ostheer and wanted a change from that perspective I would be less vocal. If you were more empathetic towards those that raised concerns, instead of just endlessly trying convince everyone their wrong, then i would be less vocal.

I know there are issues with relic, and the balance, and the design, and bugs and lag and the game is dying, so you cannot be held responsible for every screw up and much of the abuse has been uncalled for, but these maps have created issues and your attitude often leaves a lot to be desired.

Your jibe about me being "one of those idiots who thinks all the maps are yours" not only proves everything I have said about you being egotistical and dismissive, but it is also a passive aggressive insult to all the other people who have concerns about these maps.

Nothing good seems to be coming from this conversation, so i will move on after this post. But I would like to say that I do actually find the majority of the new maps to be playable and of a fairly high standard. The issues that do exist can be worked around with the use of vetos and if need be just quit and move onto next match. Ranks can recover as quickly as they erode and in the end it is enjoyment of the game and not ranks that matter....

So you have a fan club. Well done.


As i said to rommel, the reason i have not given any indepth feedback on new maps is because i have not played them enough. Maps are like patches in that time is required (in most instances) to make an informed decision. Your maps are the most CQ of the six, that is a fact, and playing them extensively will not change that.

You simply ignore or just don't understand the points i am making, instead taking everything I say as a personal insult. You have not once asked me for any opinion or engaged with any civility. Rather you have ranted and raged and lectured and flung insults like a petulant child.

As i have said before, my issue is you want to influence how the game is played even though you do not play automatch. If it all goes to shit you can just walk away, play your custom games or go back to making maps, no skin off your back. Meanwhile those that play automatch have to suffer the consequences.

Had you asked the community "Hey guys, whats your thoughts on CQ maps for 1v1 automatch" and got a positive response from ost players then I would say fair enough, its what people want. If you actively played automatch, and played Ostheer and wanted a change from that perspective I would be less vocal. If you were more empathetic towards those that raised concerns, instead of just endlessly trying convince everyone their wrong, then i would be less vocal.

I know there are issues with relic, and the balance, and the design, and bugs and lag and the game is dying, so you cannot be held responsible for every screw up and much of the abuse has been uncalled for, but these maps have created issues and your attitude often leaves a lot to be desired.

Your jibe about me being "one of those idiots who thinks all the maps are yours" not only proves everything I have said about you being egotistical and dismissive, but it is also a passive aggressive insult to all the other people who have concerns about these maps.

Nothing good seems to be coming from this conversation, so i will move on after this post. But I would like to say that I do actually find the majority of the new maps to be playable and of a fairly high standard. The issues that do exist can be worked around with the use of vetos and if need be just quit and move onto next match. Ranks can recover as quickly as they erode and in the end it is enjoyment of the game and not ranks that matter....

Yes, when they were in testing most everyone enjoyed the maps on all factions, most maps had several hundred playtests over a 6 month period.

If you would actually just post your thoughts, instead of bickering, you would see a different response. And trust me, the three mappers that have stayed in contact after the contest, knew there were issues, but we had time constraints, now with the new patch we have been told the new versions will be updated into the game, but instead, you get the petulant whining. So when you don't post anything, nothing for any of us to go off of, you get met with hostility, since that is what we all get met with by the community. So if you want to say im off base, maybe try and look at it from our side, you offered me nothing to go off of besides, what can be read off as, insults or low shots. If you perhaps offered your feedback outright, you would be met with interest and merit, instead that was not the case.

Also the fun little "egotistical and dismissive" if you have wandered in ANY of the chats, as I'm sure other mappers have, you will know why I say that. I am was not even aware this was the case until i was informed by rommel that large swathes of people think they are ALL my maps, but as you see, you aren't in the thick of things, and instead weighed in with and emotional opinion/misunderstanding/or an overtly misplaced want to understand of what was going on. Instead of approaching it in any constructive manner, you did what you did, and got met with what you got.

You do realize that everyday for 6 months the entireity of the map process and contest was streamed right? Maybe you and the others should have posted on the forums then, or came to the stream then, or done literally anything. Now we are all on this pilot-less plane together, and half of you would rather jump off without a parachute, than actually try and fly the plane together and learn it together, instead its just negative, even if it wasn't meant to be so, all the negativity, which you can see rommel points at as well, is why even if you didn't mean to be an arse, it came across that way. So if you were genuine, you do/did, want to understand / question something, than by all means do it, but do it in a way that is constructive.

All the mappers are well aware of the balance issues, but it is up to us to try and make a map fun, should we have more vetoes with more maps? YES. Did we get it? NO. Am I personally trying to get more vetoes and making sure the maps get updated by the few useful bits of feedback we have gotten yes.

TL;DR

Maybe I overshot my response to you, but it is because the majority of people talking have daggers for eyes, if you want to help, post your thoughts constructively. There is an entire thread about it.

Brothers, idiots, trolls, sisters,

Lunacy is something I embrace, but this has gone too far! I must ask the mods, for they are forever helpful, to close this abomination of a thread. It has become lucid with delusions of grandeur!

Help me!

now with the new patch we have been told the new versions will be updated into the game, but instead, you get the petulant whining.

Wait, this is major information, because the track record since 2013 is that maps don't get changed or updated. Maps have routinely been presented at 100% perfect, finished, l2p in the past. Getting a gap in hedgerows has been like pulling teeth.

Good news that there's chance for these maps to continue to be developed instead of being frozen in place for official implementation.

And people's reactions to the new maps has mostly to do with the overall design, not nuanced balancing of features that are as easy to point out like some people have done.

But I've got to say, you can't exactly tout extensive playtesting and feedback while simultaneously declare that game balance is at fault. Playtesting and feedback are explicitly what are supposed to prevent maps from highlighting game imbalances.

It's one or the other, you've got to pick one: Either the game is broken for map development, or the playtesting and feedback are insufficient (or even flawed.)

Wait, this is major information, because the track record since 2013 is that maps don't get changed or updated. Maps have routinely been presented at 100% perfect, finished, l2p in the past. Getting a gap in hedgerows has been like pulling teeth.

Good news that there's chance for these maps to continue to be developed instead of being frozen in place for official implementation.

And people's reactions to the new maps has mostly to do with the overall design, not nuanced balancing of features that are as easy to point out like some people have done.

But I've got to say, you can't exactly tout extensive playtesting and feedback while simultaneously declare that game balance is at fault. Playtesting and feedback are explicitly what are supposed to prevent maps from highlighting game imbalances.

It's one or the other, you've got to pick one: Either the game is broken for map development, or the playtesting and feedback are insufficient (or even flawed.)

In top games most maps held within 1-4% of variance between allied or axis, outside of stomps that were not taken due to skill difference.

Top games on most maps.

What does that even mean?

I'm asking out of confusion, not combativeness.

Edit:
(To contribute more than a question)

A lot of the early maps, you know, the ones developed before USF mortar, were actually kind of balanced. As in, a map that favored mortars favored Ostheer and UKF. Now with the USF mortar what used to be a subtle design advantage for Ostheer became an overwhelming weakness.

The USF mortar alone completely forced me to rework two maps I'd originally started developing for the contest.