Another idea for weapon upgrade fix

What do you think about the idea of making weapons that require two weapon slot, force 2 infantry member to fight with that weapon?

In other words, if we give a Panzerschreck for a volks squad, right now they would have 4 men fighting with KAR and 1 man with the schreck. The schreck is a 2 slot weapon, so i suggest to make 2 member of the squad fighting with that single schreck, and 3 with the KARs.

Or in case you give two LMG for a riflemen squad. Instead of fighting with 2 LMG and 3 Garand, now they would fight 2 LMG and 1 Garand.

So 2 slot weapons would make 1 man fight with the weapon and render another man to be inactive... or do the reload if you like so.

This would close the gap between vanilla and upgraded infantry.

Bad idea, when you drop models? If you drop one Tommy you force the squad to fight with one bren? Limit to one is the better and easier solution.

No. Don't try to fix what is not broken.

No. Don't try to fix what is not broken.

Double weapon upgrades are broken...

Double weapon upgrades are broken...

Yes, but what you propose will make a game even more broken (buggy).

Bad idea, when you drop models? If you drop one Tommy you force the squad to fight with one bren? Limit to one is the better and easier solution.

Depends..
5 men Tommy squad with 2 bren = 4 men fighting with 2 bren + 1 with rifle
4 men Tommy squad with 2 bren = 4 men fighting with 2 bren
3 men Tommy with 2 bren upgrade = 2 bren (if the weapon is not dropped)
3 men Tommy with 2 bren upgrade = 1 rifle + 1 bren (if the weapon is dropped)
2 men Tommy with 1 bren upgrade = 1 bren
1 men Tommy with 1 bren upgrade = 1 bren (if the weapon is not dropped)
1 men Tommy with 1 bren upgrade = 1 rifle (if the weapon is dropped)

this basically the marginal improvement of adding a lmg. you can have a similar effect just by nerfing the lmg.

and people rarely keep fighting once a squad is down to two men. It's the line of safety for most people.

Yes, but what you propose will make a game even more broken (buggy).

Would you mind explain it with some details?

Would you mind explain it with some details?

If squad loses 2 models it will be completly unable to fire (holding 2 LMGs).

All you need is a one incendiary sniper shot or one good mortart hit and you have to isnta retreat since you don't have enough men to use LMGs.

How it that an improvement?

this basically the marginal improvement of adding a lmg. you can have a similar effect just by nerfing the lmg.

and people rarely keep fighting once a squad is down to two men. It's the line of safety for most people.

Yes, but this would also address the issue of cheap squads and 5 men squads performance with AT weapons. Like sappers with 2 PIAT, Rifles with bazooka. Volks with schrecks.

My problem is there, the squads keep majority of their AI performance even when they have an AT weapon. 5 men squad upgraded with an AT weapon lose 20% of AI capability now. With my idea they would lose 40% of AI if they upgrade with an AT weapon. Without losing the efficiency of the weapon itself.

The idea sounds interesting. However:

1) It will end up hurting low-member squads even more.

We all know that 1 panzerschreck = 2 bazookas in terms of efficacy. However, bazookas come on 5-man squads (REs get a 5th man), whereas panzerschrecks, finally, come on top of 4-man squads.

Part of the unfairness is what happens when your weapons get captured. A Rifleman squad with a panzerschreck is a godsent. A Grenadier squad with double zooks is questionable.

Finally, with the proposed solution, PGrens with double schrecks will probably be terrible.

2) There is no way to implement this properly using modding tools. If there were a way, somebody would have also come up with a solution to the Tommy vet3 bug (apart from removing the scoped enfields).

It's been over a year now since Brits release, and nobody has managed to fix it (I know that Svanh has come up with a workaround, but it won't work for your case)

This is up to relic to implement slot-item prioritisation.

3) Just change the slot size requirements of LMGs* and Schrecks** to 2, and minesweepers to 1, already.

* The only exceptions to the 2-slot LMG rule should be:
- Elite squad LMGs (Paras, Obers, Commandos etc); which will revert to ordinary LMGs on drop
- BARs, assuming terminator vet gets addressed
- Bren guns will require a slight buff


** There should be a special exception made for PGrens.
- Zooks are OK at 1.
- PIATs need a heavy nerfbuff to remain an 1-slot weapon (homing missile, and nerf the stats with a bat the size of the sun).

If squad loses 2 models it will be completly unable to fire (holding 2 LMGs).

All you need is a one incendiary sniper shot or one good mortart hit and you have to isnta retreat since you don't have enough men to use LMGs.

How it that an improvement?

5 men squad...
If you lose 1 man nothing changes.. you keep fighting with two LMG, only lost a rifle.
When another man dies you roll for weapon drop.

• If the weapon is dropped you remain with 3 men fighting with 1 rifle and 1 LMG.
  
• If the weapon is NOT dropped, you end with 3 men fighting with 2 LMG.
  
  3 men could handle 2 LMG in case they dont drop the 2nd weapon.

5 men squad...
If you lose 1 man nothing changes.. you keep fighting with two LMG, only lost a rifle.
When another man dies you roll for weapon drop.

• If the weapon is dropped you remain with 3 men fighting with 1 rifle and 1 LMG.
  
• If the weapon is NOT dropped, you end with 3 men fighting with 2 LMG.
  
  3 men could handle 2 LMG in case they dont drop the 2nd weapon.

Sorry, it does not have any sense. It will only complicate things.

The idea sounds interesting. However:
1) It will end up hurting low-member squads even more.
2) There is no way to implement this properly using modding tools. If there were a way, somebody would have also come up with a solution to the Tommy vet3 bug (apart from removing the scoped enfields).

1.)
Yes, in case of 4 men squads its a bit problematic. But with this idea, we could move schrecks back to volks instead of SPios. SPios are too squishy for a 90MU weapon upgrade. Giving them the schreck was a bad idea at the first place. Volks could keep it if they lose 40% of their AI instead of 20%.

Pgrens are different story. I think they should either be an exception and keep their current form, or should have separate upgrades for schreck and MG42s (like old grenediers in CoH1). I know it sounds harsh, but it could address the issue where OST is lack of elite infantry. Honestly, PGrens are no contest for allied infantry now. They are lack of upgrades, and even with their good veterancy bonuses, Rifle and IS veterancy is just simply better.

2.)
How about making enfields not require any slots... just changing the regular rifle profile to those on vet3? But yes, the main issue is the lack of some sort of slot-item priority list.

1.)
Yes, in case of 4 men squads its a bit problematic. But with this idea, we could move schrecks back to volks instead of SPios. SPios are too squishy for a 90MU weapon upgrade. Giving them the schreck was a bad idea at the first place. Volks could keep it if they lose 40% of their AI instead of 20%.

Pgrens are different story. I think they should either be an exception and keep their current form, or should have separate upgrades for schreck and MG42s (like old grenediers in CoH1). I know it sounds harsh, but it could address the issue where OST is lack of elite infantry. Honestly, PGrens are no contest for allied infantry now. They are lack of upgrades, and even with their good veterancy bonuses, Rifle and IS veterancy is just simply better.

2.)
How about making enfields not require any slots... just changing the regular rifle profile to those on vet3? But yes, the main issue is the lack of some sort of slot-item priority list.

if you want sherck on volks back j have more realizable and easy idea make volks dops lower than cons 1 man of the squad is designed veteran (similar to assault gren there is a veteran pg) that have an stg the same as the upgrade right now then you make the upgrade to sherck but only the veteran can use it so it lose the stg having almost no ai obviously the veteran always the last men

all pick weapon 1 slot for now and slot cap most inf on 2 (expect guard 4 (2xptrs use 2 slot already) and ranger 3 slot this good if all LMG use 2 slot (option slight inceased some squad weapon slot cap )

Excuse me, but if your idea will be implemented in the game, all units with LMG will looks like soldiers of the Red Army in the film "Enemy at the gates".

I think using the word 'fix' in the thread title is a bit over the top. Something has to be broken before you can fix it.

There 0 gain from this idea. If your fix introduces more problems, it ain't a fix.

1- Implementation.
GL with that. From actually putting that into the game (download modtools and try to do so) and having a functional build with no bugs () for the kind of behavior you are asking for.

2- DPS.
Gren x2 Kar 4.82 / 12.44 vs LMG 7.19 / 7.66
Rifle x2 Gar 3.68 / 15.32 vs Bar 5.00 / 14.70

Now you realize you actually don't gain any meaningful DPS. If you increase the DPS of weapon upgrades, you are just further increasing the problems (sniping models)

- Elite squad LMGs (Paras, Obers, Commandos etc); which will revert to ordinary LMGs on drop

Question/Idea here.
Is there a way to make upgrades or picking weapon from racks require a certain amount of free slots available but the weapon itself having a different weapon slot value ?

For example:
-1919/Bren requires 2 free weapon slots available to pick them up, but the actual weapon takes only 1 slot. This makes picking weapons from the ground possible.
-LMG upgrades (besides DPs) require 2 slots but actually occupy a single one.
-STG/PPSH upgrades requires 2 slots but actually occupy one. At this point, i wouldn't mind seeing Volks been able to pick up a weapon from the ground.
-Sweeper/single schreck/flamer upgrade requires and occupies single slot. This includes salvage package.
This would allow SP to get sweeper + weapon upgrade*
*Is it possible to implement that bolstering the sweeper is only possible while not having any weapon upgrade? The moment you pick a weapon or upgrade with schreck/flamer you can't go back to withdrawing the STG ?

Question/Idea here.
Is there a way to make upgrades or picking weapon from racks require a certain amount of free slots available but the weapon itself having a different weapon slot value ?

For example:
-1919/Bren requires 2 free weapon slots available to pick them up, but the actual weapon takes only 1 slot. This makes picking weapons from the ground possible.
-LMG upgrades (besides DPs) require 2 slots but actually occupy a single one.
-STG/PPSH upgrades requires 2 slots but actually occupy one. At this point, i wouldn't mind seeing Volks been able to pick up a weapon from the ground.
-Sweeper/single schreck/flamer upgrade requires and occupies single slot. This includes salvage package.
This would allow SP to get sweeper + weapon upgrade*
*Is it possible to implement that bolstering the sweeper is only possible while not having any weapon upgrade? The moment you pick a weapon or upgrade with schreck/flamer you can't go back to withdrawing the STG ?

I think that all of what you described is possible, including the schreck/minesweeper idea.

You can even lock out certain upgrades, depending on whether certain slot items are present or not.

For instance, PGrens have access to both a single PSchreck upgrade, and a double schreck upgrade. The requirements are such that, whichever upgrade you buy, you always end up with full slots in the end. (the single shcreck costs 60 MU).

For my mod, I have actually made it possible for guards to rebuy any amount of lost DP-28's/PTRS rifles, but made them unable to ever surpass 2 of each.

However, the only way to restrict access to the item is through the source (upgrade, racks, etc), but not the ground. (ground slot-requirements are equal to player slot requirements).

I think you might be able to do just about anything you want regarding slot requirements. I think that with some trickery (e..g., applying hidden upgrades), you may even manage to change a weapon's slot requirements on the fly, after you've picked it up.