Ostheer - The Dead Circle vs USF

Ostheer is my favourite faction but currently they are helpless vs USF.

Ostheer was designed as a static faction:

Grens with LMGs need to stand still.
HMG
GrW
Pak40
PzGrens (hardly assault unit, works better when you let enemy close to you).

All basic infantry units need to stand still to be effective.

It's not a deal versus Soviets since OST and SU have really good balance between.
Versus UKF it's also not bad since both factions are better when static.

And there we have USF, flexible, offensive and mobile faction.
So, technically USF should be better than OST when mobile, and they are, but they should be worse if static. Problem is they are not.

Biggest problem was brought with new mortar.
Mortar was supposed to be an option to deal with HMGs instead of purchasing nades.
This mortar supposed to be quite weak mortar which force you to move HMG, sometimes deal some damage, sometime kill something but definetly not the best mortar in game.

And here we have the main problem. Ostheer infantry has to fight when static. That's design. You can't fire LMG42 on the move, they don't have any other upgrade with automactic weapon.
PanzerGrens also are not best to charge.

On the other hand we have Rifles with double BARs which are perfect to assault, Paras which can shoot with LMGs on the move, or Paras with thompsons, or Rangers. All of them are design to assault, attack on the move.

So when Grens take advantage, put HMG behind and prepare for assault they should have advantage.
Problem is, they do not. All because of insane mortar. Mortar which should be accurate but deals small damage happened to be accurate with very good damage profile. It means that you can't keep Grens static.
You have to move Grens to avoid wipes from mortar -> you lose your DPS -> Rifles are approaching -> Grens stand no chance.
Stand still -> get hit from mortar -> lose 50% HP -> you are force to retreat.

Unfortunatelly it does not work in second way. GrW are not useful versus Rifles since they are effective on move.

So we hit a point where OST is kinda helpless vs USF. They don't stand chance when static (vs double 1919) or vs BARs supported by this insane mortar, they also don't stand a chance on move.
Of you try to keep up with Rifles thanks to LMG42, be sure that mortar is going to hit you perfectly in 3 seconds after lying down to shoot.

And the circle is closed. Stand still -> Mortar devastates you -> Move -> Rifles devastates you. No matter what you do, for Ostheer is always uphill battle vs USF.
In my last 15 1v1 games as OST I have faced USF 13 times. It says much how powerful USF are at the moment. Why play SU or UKF when USF are easier and more powerful?

We have reached the point when you are praying that M20/AA HT/Stuart will hit teller mine <- this sums up evertyhing. If you see your chances only with lucky teller mine (or panic Puma - which won't save you from mortars), you know it's bad, really bad.

Relic, time to nerf mortar, really.

USF never really needed a mortar. I don't even know why it was even implimented

I'm in the same boat as you except I mainly play 2v2 as Ostheer and USFs are the most cancerous to vs followed by Brit mortar pits in crazy spots.

Problem 1:
Ostheer is static and allied indirect fire is insane so Ostheer suffers.

Problem 2:
Ostheer is only really offensive with tanks (and maybe double 222s) but only has 1 tank that can deal with infantry and indirect fire effectively (p4). This is their main tool for making offensive pushes to help deal with problem 1 yet the Allies can get AT weapons on all their infantry (aside from SU but they have guards to help vs LVs).
On top of that the Allies all have very good TD that hard counter ostheer most offensive unit the p4.

Basically ostheer needs 222s and p4s to deal with indirect fire but Allies have counters both in the form of infantry and TDs to hard counter it.

Ostheer last option comes from the panzerwerfer which is locked behind t4, is fragile, and is only effective a close range and against team weapons.

Conclusion: ostheer doesn't really have an answer to USF. Panther and brummbarr should be but isn't mainly due to range and speed of Jackson's (plus panther can't hit anything while moving)

Another mortar thread? I think everything that had to be said has been said at this point.

It needs lower lethality, that's obvious. Probably reduced scatter and a different vet 1.

I think it should also get increased set-up time too though, so it's not simply the worst mortar.

This US mortar was perhaps one of the worst implemented ideas I have ever seen. OP nails it: you can't move, you can't stand still, you have to pray for lucky tellers or some attention deficit. OST needs some serious love, or maybe US should LOSE some love that it received from all past patches (lose some power creep)

This US mortar was perhaps one of the worst implemented ideas I have ever seen.

Then you honestly have seen much. This one is actually pretty tame compared to other things in coh2 past.

Pretty much agree with the OP...

Only chance Ost have vs the rifle horde is static weapons... when the USF player decides to add a few mortars, especially in team games, they really just cant hold a candle to USF.

USF mortar should just be removed.... they dont need it, they have smoke and nades to clear Mg's the only reason the USF were given mortars was because of the clueless idiots who ran their blobs at MG's without smoke.

I think a couple of snipers can single handedly contain usf infantry and support weapons. They are very mobile and can scout for mgs. Perhaps the very lethal usf mortar was introduced to counter the ostheer sniper especially in 1v1. However the powerful mortar has huge effect in 2v2 gameplay and no doubt needs a little nerf.

Remove USFs mortar and give RETs flame thrower upgrade non-doctrinal. Also remove the ability for RETs to get weapon rack upgrades. Same goes for sappers. I think this is just another example of power creep imo. Ostheer needs to pay an arm and a leg to get AT weapons on their infantry (Pgrens with shrecks) while UKF and USFs can get decent AT weapons on any of their troops.

I think a couple of snipers can single handedly contain usf infantry and support weapons. They are very mobile and can scout for mgs. Perhaps the very lethal usf mortar was introduced to counter the ostheer sniper especially in 1v1. However the powerful mortar has huge effect in 2v2 gameplay and no doubt needs a little nerf.

The sniper was already nerfed with bigger target size and longer aim times. Don't see why USFs needs the mortar to deal with sniper anymore. RM also have very good DPS on the move while poor grenadiers can't chase down a sniper for the life of them. Ostheer used to deal with snipers by counter sniping but with the extra aim time it makes it nearly impossible for ostheer to counter decent micro play from the allies.

imo when I played this game, I realized that myself and my partner went weak T1's. I stopped teching and went heavier on sniper/weapon team/ and grens, my games went a lot easier. Also try double pio start and get flamers USF cant handle it until later.

I liked how it was in the balance mod where it was shit but still existed as a soft counter

Of course, sniper can win you first engagements but as the game progresses, enemy gets double BARs, double mortar and AA HT / Stuart, sniper suddenly loses his power and inflicts way smaller bleed/HP lose than double mortars

I played OH the last days a lot (2vs2) and the mortar simply shuts down most of the OH gameplay. I can handle the blobs, but I cant handle 1-2 mortars
And I doubt there will be a patch before the WPC finals

Well and of top of that there is Calliope which wipes without any chances to survive your precious vet 3 Pak or vet 3 HMG42

So this is just another thread to remove usf mortar. Nothing to do here

So this is just another thread to remove usf mortar. Nothing to do here

I highly recommend L2Read.

Mortar, 1919, light vehicles, calliope, shooting on the move.

I highly recommend L2Read.

Mortar, 1919, light vehicles, calliope, shooting on the move.

Thanks for advice! I'll try to

Exactly...

• Mortars are ridiculous... totally f*cked up USF.
  
• 1919 and double MGs are plain bullsh*t.. why not lightsabers ffs?!
  
• Light vehicles are messed up too.. its not just USF, its a general issue.
  
• Calliope is just a Sherman with a WorldEditor function.. you can erase objects with it..

• Calliope is just a Sherman with a WorldEditor function.. you can erase objects with it..

I lold