Ostheer - The Dead Circle vs USF

spotted the baddie!

I lost count on the hundreds of games I see ostwind spam being a game winner.

inb4 hurrr durr playercard because even jove and hans lost several times to this strat.

Ostwind spam game winner.

In the absence of the 'tof, you are quickly establishing yourself as this forums most prolific fanboy. Keep at it, you have great shoes to fill.

Ostwind spam game winner.

In the absence of the 'tof, you are quickly establishing yourself as this forums most prolific fanboy. Keep at it, you have great shoes to fill.

Let's make a clear distinction between OH and OKW Ostwinds.

Ostwind spam game winner.

In the absence of the 'tof, you are quickly establishing yourself as this forums most prolific fanboy. Keep at it, you have great shoes to fill.

"muh weekest facshium!!11!"

"f-f-f-fanboy!11!"

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  0

  VS

  Zero

  Coh2 is Terminal Cancer

  balanced game :)

  by: zerocoh map: Arnhem Checkpoint

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I wanna see what excuse you gonna give me now, amaze me.

"muh weekest facshium!!11!"

"f-f-f-fanboy!11!"

•  
  

  0

  VS

  Zero

  Coh2 is Terminal Cancer

  balanced game :)

  by: zerocoh map: Arnhem Checkpoint

  6

  -

I wanna see what excuse you gonna give me now, amaze me.

I can show you game where Sherman was winning against Panther frontally.
Does it make Panther weaker tank than Sherman?
No, it does not.
OST is not known from Ostwind spam becasue it's not efficient but it does not change the fact that sometimes it can work.

It work flawlessly on OKW though.

and if your opponent go full retard and spam a lot of infantry you can make a flak+stug and counter everything.

also, you are completely missing the point.

the subject here is how OST is weak at all, quite the opposite.

Let's make a clear distinction between OH and OKW Ostwinds.

What's the difference?
Besides OKW prostwind having 5 levels of vet and being a Call-in.

...and being a Call-in.

Ding ding ding ding
+
Been a different faction

"muh weekest facshium!!11!"

"f-f-f-fanboy!11!"

•  
  

  0

  VS

  Zero

  Coh2 is Terminal Cancer

  balanced game :)

  by: zerocoh map: Arnhem Checkpoint

  6

  -

I wanna see what excuse you gonna give me now, amaze me.

Let's make a clear distinction between OH and OKW Ostwinds.

This was obviously in the context of the OH Ostwind. Which in terms of cost efficiency is a crap unit if there ever was one. Obviously, the OKW Ostwind, by simple virtue of being a call in with zilch opportunity cost is greatly superior in this respect. Also, isolated replays don't prove shit. I've won no shortage of games against top 50 players using all sorts of outlandish off-meta because I got lucky or they had a bad day, or both. What is pertinent to balance discussions is the statistical average in conjunction with tournament results, and these speak a clear language for anybody not too blinkered to see them. That is not to say that winning as OH meta on meta is somehow impossible of course, but that your chances will be tangibly reduced (ie. 40:60) given equal player skill.
And no offence zero, you epitomise the problem since you have no experience of what you are talking about. If you were actually play OH to the point where you encounter capable opposition on a regular basis, I reckon you would change your take on the matter rather quickly. That is all.

Ding ding ding ding
+
Been a different faction

OKW is more agressive by nature, I guess being able to seal the deal with call in vehicles that can bleed enemy some more is better on them, than OST who should always go PZ4.

Ostwind is so popular for OKW becasue OKW has huge gap between light and medium vehicles opposite to other factions, so Ostwind is there to save the day.

Ostwind is so popular for OKW becasue OKW has huge gap between light and medium vehicles opposite to other factions, so Ostwind is there to save the day.

Scavenge is the shit. Not a single bad ability in the commander (although a couple are eh), elite inf + Ostwind, what more could you want from a commander.

Need AI against USF but he has stuart? Just get an ostwind

Need Elite inf earlier in the game? Jaegers

Want Assgren's nade assault, but 30 muni cheeper? Have it on everyone.

Need arty ability: Here, have one that scales with muni.

Only real complaint is that the actual scavenge bonus can be kinda lackluster depending on the game. Did Relic actually upgrade the fuel returns way back when they took away OKW's resource gimmick?

i'm curious to see what would happen if ukf's tier 2 and usf's cpt and lt tier all had a 100 mp increase to it. so ukf would take 280 mp (?) to unlock REs and usf would take 300 to unlock lt or cpt respectively, that is how much mp it costs to tech up in an ostheer player's shoes, i feel like its because an ostheer is always having to save up for tier 2 at least to get a pak gun out in time for a AEC/T70/Stuart rush which is why they are always losing early-mid game, maybe an increase in teching cost for allies or decrease in teching cost for Wehrmacht might even things out?

i'm curious to see what would happen if ukf's tier 2 and usf's cpt and lt tier all had a 100 mp increase to it. so ukf would take 280 mp (?) to unlock REs and usf would take 300 to unlock lt or cpt respectively, that is how much mp it costs to tech up in an ostheer player's shoes, i feel like its because an ostheer is always having to save up for tier 2 at least to get a pak gun out in time for a AEC/T70/Stuart rush which is why they are always losing early-mid game, maybe an increase in teching cost for allies or decrease in teching cost for Wehrmacht might even things out?

If you have to save up to build T2, you have a problem.

If you have to save up to build T2, you have a problem.

Hahaha, awright mate you care to elaborate my problem? You either open heavy t1 like DevM does with three grens hmg and sniper, OR you rush t2 to get scout cars so yea tell me my problem mate. Whenever you tech you pour at least 300 MP down the drain, MP that while will be earned back in time is precious time that the allied player can use to pressure your side of the map with superior numbers. If you think I have a problem, you better damn well explain it to me.

Hahaha, awright mate you care to elaborate my problem? You either open heavy t1 like DevM does with three grens hmg and sniper, OR you rush t2 to get scout cars so yea tell me my problem mate. Whenever you tech you pour at least 300 MP down the drain, MP that while will be earned back in time is precious time that the allied player can use to pressure your side of the map with superior numbers. If you think I have a problem, you better damn well explain it to me.

You do not save up for T2, you usually tech BP1 when you have the 45 fuel, 100mp/45fu and then T2 when you have the 20fu, 200mp/20fu.
You can delay t2 if you decide to go heavy T1 but that's a choice, not a problem of saving up. Or you did something wrong early game. This is why I say if you have trouble to save up, there is a problem.

USF T1 gives you ltn for 50 fuel. But you have to invest 10 fuel more on healing and 15 fuel more in BARs/Zook in order to reach the same level of service Ostheer get once BP1 unlocked + 60muni healing bunker.
Prices are already balanced around it.

Os: 80+100+200+150mp + 10+45+20fu +60mu
USF: 200+150+250mp +50+10+15fu and I'm not including grenades.

USF has a big edge today because of the mortar being OP, before that USF/Ostheer was one of the most balance matchup. This is sad that Relic made this update, can't deny it.

You do not save up for T2, you usually tech BP1 when you have the 45 fuel, 100mp/45fu and then T2 when you have the 20fu, 200mp/20fu.
You can delay t2 if you decide to go heavy T1 but that's a choice, not a problem of saving up. Or you did something wrong early game. This is why I say if you have trouble to save up, there is a problem.

USF T1 gives you ltn for 50 fuel. But you have to invest 10 fuel more on healing and 15 fuel more in BARs/Zook in order to reach the same level of service Ostheer get once BP1 unlocked + 60muni healing bunker.
Prices are already balanced around it.

Os: 80+100+200+150mp + 10+45+20fu +60mu
USF: 200+150+250mp +50+10+15fu and I'm not including grenades.

You are also not including timing and the later teching stages (to be fair, the latter one wasn't what you were talking about). Sure, the match-up is kind of fair, even though Ostheer pays more manpower and ammo for the same service. But when you start to include that Ostheer has a longer research AND has to pull back a scouting/flanking unit from the front to then start building that stupid building, you suddenly lag even further behind.
On top of that come the American officers. With every tech, you get a free unit. A unit that in most cases can more than just go toe to toe with Ostheer infantry. And those free units come with more than just combat capability. Every good player will use their Captain to pump out a Stuart even faster. Or just take a look at the Major's forward retreat, something that Ostheer doesn't have at all and something that OKW has to pay dearly to get.

These things are simply not well-thought out. Sure, they make for a cool faction, but not for a balanced game. The community was happy when the OKW free teching benefits were gone, and rightly so. Now we need the same thing to happen to USF.

You are also not including timing and the later teching stages (to be fair, the latter one wasn't what you were talking about). Sure, the match-up is kind of fair, even though Ostheer pays more manpower and ammo for the same service. But when you start to include that Ostheer has a longer research AND has to pull back a scouting/flanking unit from the front to then start building that stupid building, you suddenly lag even further behind.
On top of that come the American officers. With every tech, you get a free unit. A unit that in most cases can more than just go toe to toe with Ostheer infantry. And those free units come with more than just combat capability. Every good player will use their Captain to pump out a Stuart even faster. Or just take a look at the Major's forward retreat, something that Ostheer doesn't have at all and something that OKW has to pay dearly to get.

These things are simply not well-thought out. Sure, they make for a cool faction, but not for a balanced game. The community was happy when the OKW free teching benefits were gone, and rightly so. Now we need the same thing to happen to USF.

USF = free lt/cpt/major
Ostheer = free pfaust/grenade/lmg unlock. We can also argue that shrecks are freely unlocked for pzgren.

I also let you check lt building time compared to Ostheer T2. BP1 is something you need to unlock asap when you reach the fuel requirement, that's why it only cost 100mp. Once unlock you should have or almost have the resource to build T2 which takes much less time than building lt/cpt.

I agree on the fact ostheer/sov need engies to build up their tiers building and this could be something changed in order to balance the game.

And it doesn't change my conclusion, yes Oshteer is underwhelming vs USF, but it wasn't the case before the introduction of the mortar.

Funnily enough, OKW is weaker than OST.

USF = free lt/cpt/major
Ostheer = free pfaust/grenade/lmg unlock. We can also argue that shrecks are freely unlocked for pzgren.

To be honest - what a comparison is that?? Do you really think that 3 free powerful units can be compared to some unlocking of abilities that one needs munitions to pay for?? Those units are manpower cheap and that's the problem. With captain and lt you get very powerful squads that will kill grens easilty even appraching them when they are behind cover. It leads to US having many more units on the field and pushing off axis easily who need to retreat units and stop capping and spotting to build base buildings. I'm sorry to write it but U completely don't understand how much imbalanced it is. It's not about unit stats but battlefield presence - US just outnumber ost by too many squads and men on the field. Secondly, once you get a captain you unlock 50 munition bazooka, which is more than enough to kill 222 because its armor is paperthin. With lt you get free mg and thompson. How can anybody be so blind not to see that?

To be honest - what a comparison is that?? Do you really think that 3 free powerful units can be compared to some unlocking of abilities that one needs munitions to pay for??

Yes it is, but you're probably too bad or Axis fanboy to release it.