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russian armor

What's left to fix to have a fairly balanced game?

13 Sep 2016, 23:08 PM
#21
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 311

I think the things to be balanced or fixed are:
1- Arty is being too powefull now. Specially Callipe and LandMatress. Its a garanteed wiped with zero effort and skill.
2- Double lmg. Should be only one.
3- 4men gren squad. Should be 5, and 280mp.
4- 222 should cost at least 10 more fuel.
5- T70 and stuart OP as hell at the beginning of the game. Ost has no proper way to counter them.
6- P4 and Panther for the OKW are a bit expensive. Should cost at least 10 fuel less.
7- Mortars too accurate. Specially USF one.
8- And last but not least, M10 and Cromwell are too good at running over inf.
13 Sep 2016, 23:20 PM
#22
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2016, 23:08 PMLeo251
I think the things to be balanced or fixed are:
1- Arty is being too powefull now. Specially Callipe and LandMatress. Its a garanteed wiped with zero effort and skill.
2- Double lmg. Should be only one.
3- 4men gren squad. Should be 5, and 280mp.
4- 222 should cost at least 10 more fuel.
5- T70 and stuart OP as hell at the beginning of the game. Ost has no proper way to counter them.
6- P4 and Panther for the OKW are a bit expensive. Should cost at least 10 fuel less.
7- Mortars too accurate. Specially USF one.
8- And last but not least, M10 and Cromwell are too good at running over inf.

Here is my take :
1- yea calliope and land matters need to be put in line with kat and pwefer
2-yea 1 lmg x squad no more than that
3-no the problem is usf mortar if we fix lmg gren will actually put up a fight vs rifle/is
4-yes and no 222 should have the old munition cost back for the cannon something like 80-100 mun
5-yea they just need to buff theirs mg but nerf the main cannon scatter
6- nah they are ok after all the tech cost is not that high on the other hand ost p4 and panther are over priced or underperforming
7- only the usf one is too accurate ty to vet but I would just reduce the damage of all mortar to 40 and double their air no more rng wipe
8- Cromwell yes, m10 no
13 Sep 2016, 23:32 PM
#23
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072


Here is my take :

8- Cromwell yes, m10 no

Uh you do understand that without using warspeed the M10 has better crushing abilities than the cromwell.

Cromwell acceleration: 2.6
M10 acceleration: 3.2

All other movement stats are the same.
13 Sep 2016, 23:46 PM
#24
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


Uh you do understand that without using warspeed the M10 has better crushing abilities than the cromwell.

Cromwell acceleration: 2.6
M10 acceleration: 3.2

All other movement stats are the same.
it has less life and armor and is only at just 1 pfaust block it alone
Btw Cromwell is soo good when it tries to crush the squad clump up and the shells wipe it m 10 can't do that
14 Sep 2016, 06:32 AM
#25
avatar of ApeoftheYear

Posts: 5

it has less life and armor and is only at just 1 pfaust block it alone
Btw Cromwell is soo good when it tries to crush the squad clump up and the shells wipe it m 10 can't do that


It is a dedicated tank destroyer and imo simply shouldnt have that bonus of beeing able kill infantry that effectivly, especially when it comes in a doctrine where there is a dedicated anti Infantry Tank included.
14 Sep 2016, 06:48 AM
#26
avatar of easierwithaturret

Posts: 247

inb4 20 page thread
14 Sep 2016, 07:36 AM
#27
avatar of Blalord

Posts: 742 | Subs: 1

it has less life and armor and is only at just 1 pfaust block it alone
Btw Cromwell is soo good when it tries to crush the squad clump up and the shells wipe it m 10 can't do that


As far as i know m10 and cromwell have exactly same hp and faust at 100%hp will not cause engin damage
14 Sep 2016, 07:59 AM
#28
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2016, 07:36 AMBlalord


As far as i know m10 and cromwell have exactly same hp and faust at 100%hp will not cause engin damage
m10 560 Cromwell 640
1 Faust one crippled m10 not the same for Cromwell
14 Sep 2016, 10:46 AM
#29
avatar of Crumbum

Posts: 213

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2016, 21:12 PMTobis
They've got most of the non-doctrinal units in a good spot now, with only some minor changes required to specific units. (and major change needed on USF mortar)
Underpowered/Underused units in no particular order:
- Ostheer Ostwind
- m8 Scott
- british nades
- Churchill
- AT emplacement
- Flak-HT
- ISG(smoke)

I think these are probably obviously underperforming units that most people would agree need changes. There are plenty of other units that that people could pick out to be changed, but atleast they are fairly functional. Except for the ISG, these units are pretty much never seen, which is sad for non-doctrinal units.


Once those are done they can start working on the doctrinal stuff, but there is too much to name.


M8 scott got good changes last patch and is actually quite decent atm I wouldn't say its underpowered at all, its just that shermans and Jackson take priority and are more safer choices which is why you don't see scotts very often.

British nades are ok its just that they don't fit well with the brit faction and tommies since you can't be very aggressive with them and have to sit in cover at longer ranges. Not to mention tommies have shite moving accuracy which discourages both aggressive movement and therefore nades are less of a necessity.

Churchill is a great damage sponge especially in comination with fireflies, it can do good vs infantry too but it tends to miss quite often, not a unit that needs a priority change imo.

By AT emplacement do you mean 17 pounder? 20 pop is ridiculous and its been established for a long time that it should be changed.

I agree with the flak ht and isg in need a buff, although the flak ht is not as bad as people think it is. The flak emplacement is something which seriously sucks.

As you said there are plenty more doctrinal units that need looking at *cough cough* m42.
14 Sep 2016, 14:33 PM
#30
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543

Give axis a demo charge option - even if you charge it like tech - for example, 100 MP and 30 fuel
14 Sep 2016, 14:42 PM
#31
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2016, 10:46 AMCrumbum


M8 scott got good changes last patch and is actually quite decent atm I wouldn't say its underpowered at all, its just that shermans and Jackson take priority and are more safer choices which is why you don't see scotts very often.

British nades are ok its just that they don't fit well with the brit faction and tommies since you can't be very aggressive with them and have to sit in cover at longer ranges. Not to mention tommies have shite moving accuracy which discourages both aggressive movement and therefore nades are less of a necessity.

Churchill is a great damage sponge especially in comination with fireflies, it can do good vs infantry too but it tends to miss quite often, not a unit that needs a priority change imo.

By AT emplacement do you mean 17 pounder? 20 pop is ridiculous and its been established for a long time that it should be changed.

I agree with the flak ht and isg in need a buff, although the flak ht is not as bad as people think it is. The flak emplacement is something which seriously sucks.

As you said there are plenty more doctrinal units that need looking at *cough cough* m42.
m8 Scot need heat barrage like pack how and then people will use it
17 pounder just need less pop cap like 12/13
Isg needs more aid and flack half truck need less setup time and more pen/damage vs light vehicle
M42 just give it 160 damage instead of 80 or give it normal pen not both and not neither
14 Sep 2016, 14:47 PM
#32
avatar of RiCE

Posts: 284

  • Decrease all explosive damage (especially mortars) against infantry
  • Increase mortar damage against all structures and garrisoned units
  • Decrease the accuracy of auto-fire
  • Reduce the effectiveness of T70 and AEC
  • Increase fuel cost for 222
  • Decrease manpower cost for Obersoldatens
  • Increase price or decrease effectiveness of T34/85 (too easy to achieve)
  • Increase P4 effectiveness
  • Remove double LMG upgrades from weapon racks
  • Fix Raketenwerfers firing speed for the first shot
14 Sep 2016, 14:56 PM
#33
avatar of Pedro_Jedi

Posts: 543

- Nerf a bit (maybe 5% from vet 2 and 3, i.e., 23%->18%) of Rec Acc from veterancy on rifle squads
- Increase health pool of KV1
- Increase just a little bit the effectiveness of ostwind, or, at least, decrease a little the price (to 90 fuel)
- Give raketen squad green cover
- PG's could receive a different vet1 ability. Tactical advance would be great.
- USF mortar, oh god, fix that
- Change brit cancer commander - remove the fortified emplacement and give something else.
- Increase a little bit the teching price of brits. It's so fast.
14 Sep 2016, 15:28 PM
#34
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2016, 10:46 AMCrumbum


M8 scott got good changes last patch and is actually quite decent atm I wouldn't say its underpowered at all, its just that shermans and Jackson take priority and are more safer choices which is why you don't see scotts very often.

British nades are ok its just that they don't fit well with the brit faction and tommies since you can't be very aggressive with them and have to sit in cover at longer ranges. Not to mention tommies have shite moving accuracy which discourages both aggressive movement and therefore nades are less of a necessity.



I know they aren't bad, but there is really no reason to get them. They all cost a somewhat significant amount of fuel, and that is pretty much always better off used to buy the next better unit in that tier. There is really nothing going for the scot that the sherman doesn't just do better. Same thing with the Ostheer Ostwind and the p4. Why spend bunch of fuel on a decent AI unit, when you can save for a minute and spend it on a decent AI unit, that's also good at AT? They are victims due to their space in the tech tree.
14 Sep 2016, 15:53 PM
#35
avatar of Maverick131

Posts: 7




Brit nade tech is also way too overpriced for what it offers (a short-range grenade for a squad that bleeds like a pig in short-range and can't flank for shit?). This means that nade tech is skipped 100% of the time, and Brits just go for a fast Cromwell.

- Just make nade tech cheaper (to make it a near-no-brainer) and throw the rest of the tech cost back into the mainline tech tree. You -want- to make Brits purchase the side-tech to delay their tanks.



How about move the smoke upgrade with grenade tech from USF to the UKF, since people are complaining about rifles having too much utility and they already got their mortal.

I think this would make the upgrade much more attractive and fitting, since like you said Tommies are quite adysmal when out of cover and on the move contrast to Rifle with BAR so they can't just smoke and gun down MG team, not to mention this will make USF require more micro between their Rifles and mortal not just Rifles Rifles Rifles all the time.

You have no idea how many time i have to ping my fingers off just to ask for welfare smoke from Soviet and American teammates to avoid bunkers maze (and it not even guarantee you get smoke 100 % of the time, this greatly depend on the quality of your mates as well )
14 Sep 2016, 20:04 PM
#36
avatar of weld

Posts: 7

Here is the question of the day and one that needs answering. Has Relic said or hinted that they may balance the game again? If not then this entire conversation is useless. I think honestly the game probably needs at least 2 more patches to be close to balanced, and Relic may not entertain the notion of throwing more money into a franchise that's not making them much money.
Sad, but true. :/
14 Sep 2016, 20:11 PM
#37
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Sep 2016, 20:04 PMweld
Here is the question of the day and one that needs answering. Has Relic said or hinted that they may balance the game again? If not then this entire conversation is useless. I think honestly the game probably needs at least 2 more patches to be close to balanced, and Relic may not entertain the notion of throwing more money into a franchise that's not making them much money.
Sad, but true. :/

They said they are switching to quarterly updates, and the only new content will be cosmetic(with an emphasis on community made stuff).
14 Sep 2016, 22:14 PM
#38
avatar of Waegukin

Posts: 609

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Sep 2016, 21:17 PMwouren
Making the comet/cromwell smoke ability less buggy. That's something from the top of my head.

Making Brits in general less buggy. Off the top of my head:

Tommy Vet 3
Sniper targeting buildings rather then the people in them
AEC stun (and balancing the stun, 20 seconds if it does work is nuts)
Mortar pit second mortar is weaker on barrage mode
Commando Cloak bonuses staying on until the squad member dies
Crom/Comet smoke shell never firing
M3's vet doesn't work properly
Valentine will sometimes track people who've long since exited the beam
Etc, etc
15 Sep 2016, 11:44 AM
#39
avatar of MATRAKA14

Posts: 118

Underperforming commanders (including useless abilities like hit the dirt or single il2 strafe)

KV1
B4
M42
15 Sep 2016, 12:11 PM
#40
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

Units popping out of Buildings (Falls, Sturms ). Make it like USF paras or at least this should be only possible in your own territory.
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