PzWerfer vs Calliope.

I disagree that it's a zero risk unit. It is so fragile if the enemy decides to fire back at it there's a good chances it will die. On top of that it needs to get close to actually do any dmg.

Id like the aoe far dmg buffed so it doesn't always need to be on top of its target to kill it.

I would rather have the calliope and the land mattress nerfed. It's basically hell for the axis whenever the allies bring those two units. A close range calliope barrage is basically guaranteed to wipe a squad.

As a main allied fanboy (lel) I would like to know why PzWerfer is so shit and Calliope so good.

What pushed for this thread? Just done 1v1 vs USF.

Calliope vs PzWefer.

Non-doc Calliope killing unlimited amount of models, leaving Paks40 without any chances to survive.
Meanwhile PzWerfer shooting directly at mortar - 2 models down.

Point is not to buff PzWerfer but nerf Calliope so it acts like a Katyusha.

Don't get it why call-in is way more powerful and durable than T4 unit.




So what's the reason behind sucking Pzwefer and wiping Calliope? Or maybe different way. What's the reason for normal acting PzWerfer and way way more powerful Calliope?

Lol, is that because Katitof been ban that you turn your jacket from Allied Fanboi to Axis one?

I'm not really sure Pzw sucks, I don't have a lot of personal experience using it cuz rocket arty isn't my play style but every time I see some on the battlefield, they do the job.

Here we have the next example of the OPness from allie units.

the have the most powerfull arty, the strongest infantery, very good tanks, best emplacements, best call in stuff, and get a 3 factions.


yeah...now kati-doof can explain why axis is fine and we are all bad players

but he forget....everytime....that u must have much more skill and luck to play with axis.

especially in 2v2

Lol, is that because Katitof been ban that you turn your jacket from Allied Fanboi to Axis one?

I'm not really sure Pzw sucks, I don't have a lot of personal experience using it cuz rocket arty isn't my play style but every time I see some on the battlefield, they do the job.

You fuc*king kidding me? I'm playing only Axis 1v1 in last month.
____

I still should have a replay.

Problem is I needed PzWerfer as a AI unit but it completly sucked so instead of a Panther I had to get Brummbar as a another AI unit which completly ruined my plans.

You fuc*king kidding me? I'm playing only Axis 1v1 in last month.
____

I still should have a replay.

Problem is I needed PzWerfer as a AI unit but it completly sucked so instead of a Panther I had to get Brummbar as a another AI unit which completly ruined my plans.

Its difficult to determine if you aren't just trolling. Pzw isn't a high value unit on 1vs1. low armor, large cooldown, cost a lot to unlock and then is really limited in its use aka, counter blob. Unless you can catch your opponent full retreating in his base, you're not going to get paid really fast for your investment.
So yes, a Brumbar is most likely to do a better job in 1vs1, even if it is more expensive to build. Brumbar counter blobs and lone units, doesn't have a cooldown, have a high armor and it is definitively a shock unit in the sense of - You need a good damn TD to kill it fast -.

Compared to the Calliope, well as USF, or take the Calliope Doctrine or you take the Buldo doctrine, I guess the difference is there + prices.
Not that I'm against nerfing the calliope, just that I never felt your experience vs it while I'm also playing a lot and exclusively Ostheer lately. I have even lost my USF ranking....

Lol, is that because Katitof been ban that you turn your jacket from Allied Fanboi to Axis one?

I'm not really sure Pzw sucks, I don't have a lot of personal experience using it cuz rocket arty isn't my play style but every time I see some on the battlefield, they do the job.

Katikof is banned?

Its difficult to determine if you aren't just trolling. Pzw isn't a high value unit on 1vs1. low armor, large cooldown, cost a lot to unlock and then is really limited in its use aka, counter blob. Unless you can catch your opponent full retreating in his base, you're not going to get paid really fast for your investment.
So yes, a Brumbar is most likely to do a better job in 1vs1, even if it is more expensive to build. Brumbar counter blobs and lone units, doesn't have a cooldown, have a high armor and it is definitively a shock unit in the sense of - You need a good damn TD to kill it fast -.

Compared to the Calliope, well as USF, or take the Calliope Doctrine or you take the Buldo doctrine, I guess the difference is there + prices.
Not that I'm against nerfing the calliope, just that I never felt your experience vs it while I'm also playing a lot and exclusively Ostheer lately. I have even lost my USF ranking....

No it's not, becasue Brummbar is kept at bay as useless unit by Jackson.

^Sorry for ot but I love the New Jackson, such a beast which can 1v1 every other tank with ease (except ele and jt which arent viable in my gamemodes )

I made few misteakes, bad choices, 3G delay costed my early Grens squad etc but somehow I stayed alive and I belive I had chaces to win.

After getting Werfer I wanted a Panther to push with infantry in the middle, Tiger from the top and Panther from the bottom but Werfer was so useless vs infantry that I made Brummbar (probably bad choce tho).


But Werfer vs Calliope.

First barrage of Calliope - 2 Paks wipe but it's OK. I kept them togehter. From that point I tried to separete them a bit and keep in ove all the time. Around 30:20 Calliope if firing almost from cut off at my cut off and the first salvo wipes Pak and kills 2 models from the second Pak despite I was moving them the moment I heard sound.

It's the same story all the time. Sometimes Callipe was firing next to middle VP but most ofthem from cut off to cut off ending with 60 kills while PzWerfer aiming as close as possible to mortar - 2 kills. Shooting at Major - 0 kills. Only last one barrage killed 8 models of repairing engis but I belive it's ecuase extra damage during repairs.

At some point it was shooting from cut off directly at my base and skill killing models like crazy.

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  VS

  TAB Australian Magic

  Tenshi

  PzWerfer vs Calliope

  by: Australian Magic map: Kholodny Ferma

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No it's not, becasue Brummbar is kept at bay as useless unit by Jackson.

Can't watch your replay but you say you have 2 paks, isn't it enough to keep the jackson at bay as well?

Can't watch your replay but you say you have 2 paks, isn't it enough to keep the jackson at bay as well?

No, becasue Calliope wiped them like hmm 6 times?


Of course, finally I killed a Jackon but it meant nothing.

Good game to watch, the callope came and won the game for him in a disgusting fashion tbh. The callope is superior to werfer in every aspect, armour, health, long range, mid range and close range damage, cool down is the same, but the the only thing the werfer has is suppression lol.

When i said disgusting i meant watching his callope fire at your base and kill models reliably with such little risk, it was consistently wiping your weapon teams and then your werfer responded by killing 2 models on a mortar lol. even if you somehow caught it offguard its armour and health will save it. BTW near the end did the callope take out the werfer? lol

I dont think the werfer needs a buff yet, its just that you have units like the calliope which are severally over performing.

Good game to watch, the callope came and won the game for him in a disgusting fashion tbh. The callope is superior to werfer in every aspect, armour, health, long range, mid range and close range damage, cool down is the same, but the the only thing the werfer has is suppression lol.

When i said disgusting i meant watching his callope fire at your base and kill models reliably with such little risk, it was consistently wiping your weapon teams and then your werfer responded by killing 2 models on a mortar lol. even if you somehow caught it offguard its armour and health will save it. BTW near the end did the callope take out the werfer? lol

I dont think the werfer needs a buff yet, its just that you have units like the calliope which are severally over performing.

And that's the thing. Werfer is fine. Calliope is not.

I have a feeling like I put huge, huge micro in this game with 2 snipers, trying to keep paks on move, trying to keep HMG alive while USF could just a-move middle VP, retreat to Major and barrage with Calliope. In other words, I have a feeling like intensive micro should reward me vs non-intensive micro USF but it didn't

In my opinion, the Calliope should use the firing pattern of the Land Mattress:
- fire a lot of (weaker) rockets
- force the enemy to evacuate the area
- but don't outright kill them

The problem with the Land Mattress and the Calliope are that they are way too durable. Even if you overextend, the enemy just can't hope to dive in to kill. This is primarily because the Axis factions lack proper flanking units.

If OKW/OST had access to T34/76s, this problem would never exist. Instead they have:

- Stug/JP4, which don't have turrets
- P4, which is non-cost-efficient and, even then, can bounce on the Calliope
- The Panther, which is sub-optimal for engaging soft targets
- The Puma, which lacks the penetration at range

Personally, I don't see why the Calliope should be more durable than the Jackson (perhaps it should be even less durable).

werfer and caliope are fine because u know there is something like asymetric balance i guess and its like pershing and king tiger

werfer and caliope are fine because u know there is something like asymetric balance i guess and its like pershing and king tiger

You know what assymentrical balance means?

King Tiger:

Armor, health, AoE, damage, penetration vs speed, slow turret, cost


Pershing:

AoE, speed, pircing shot, reload vs health and armor to some degree.

So when you compare KT and Pershing, both of them have some advantages. KT has better armor and main gun but it's slowr and easy to flank by Pershing.

What about Calliope and Werfer?

Firesparks already said everything. Less rockets, less damage, less HP, less armor.
Assymetrcal balance in this case should look like this:

Calliope: armor, health but shit long-mid range damage.
Werfer: shit armor, shit health but very good long-mid range damage.

Currently Calliope owns all advtanges.

2v2 speaking,

Panzer werfer is useless, tho this is where I see most blobbing, and you would think it would be the most useful unfortunately, it's not.

Why?

OH having force tiering.

Your required to go tier 1. Tier 2. For AT guns. Then it's not too long before your facing fast Sherman's and Cromwells.

Most OH in 2v2 I see go tier 3 for stugs to counter cromwells, then call in. Considering the timing of tier 4. There are already 2 Cromwells on the field. "Jack of all trade" tanks that have no problem wiping grens n such. Tier 4 easily becomes too little too late.

Now let's say OH goes tier 4. A panther is ALWAYS going to have to be a first pick due to allied armour presence. Iv been seeing a lot of Cromwell and comet spam. Those tanks are simply too good vs. Everything for OH not to be able to not go Panthers, but instead go Panzer werfer.

So when it comes to the original argument of why Panzer Werfer vs calliope. I would say mainly due to, (as always) axis reacting to allied game play.

Maybe if allied armour didn't 1 shot squads or decrew AT guns so easily. Then be able to tango with armour. If grens had an extra member to recrew weapons more easily.

And then most importantly is how the two fire. The Panzer werfer is legit a hit or miss. And often when you hit. Your no longer doing the damage that is worth the wait, also panzerwerfers are 1 shotted. Calliopes are durable for reckless play.

Calliops barrage is what I would consider to have a perfect spread to it. And even if you retreat on the first Salvo or signs of fire. Often a rocket still wipes a squad. So even if you miss. You still have a chance to hit...


I know this argument is OH vs USF, and most of my argument is OH vs UKF. But 2v2s, I see British in almost every match. With the Cromwells allowing their ally, (USF) to go rocket arty or stall for whatever.

Decrease reload time
Increase durability
Increase lethality


Make it worth building again. Land mattress/USF motar/UKF motor, calliope, and Katusha all out perform werfers, in terms of cost per the unit and kills outcome.

Moving to COH2 Gameplay

Here you can discuss anything having to do with gameplay in COH2. This includes mechanics, maps, and units and abilities.

Decrease reload time
Increase durability
Increase lethality


... Katusha all out perform werfers, in terms of cost per the unit and kills outcome.

1. Just no..

- Panzerwerfer rockets are (slightly) stronger than Katyusha rockets
- ... they come down almost instantly
- ... they still instapin.

Do you have any stats/first-hand experience/whatever to back your claim up?

2. Alpha-strike long-range one-hit-wipe wonders are cancerous.

We've already been experiencing this from September 2015 to March 2016 (?). There is no need to repeat the mistakes of the recent past... again.