A retroactive DQ would disqualify Nog before he and Von played. So Von would be the one to move on.
In that case you would have to give hans a chance too since he also played noggano for it to be fair.
RELIC'S WPC Change of plan
10 Sep 2016, 23:43 PM
#101
Posts: 409 | Subs: 17
In that case you would have to give hans a chance too since he also played noggano for it to be fair.
10 Sep 2016, 23:48 PM
#102
Posts: 26
In that case you would have to give hans a chance too since he also played noggano for it to be fair.
Not true. The scenario I mentioned fixes this acute problem with minimal impact on the tourney.
Your viewpoint says he should be DQ'd to the start which would ruin the whole tourney. Sotjador would have to play Quentin, winner would have to play Hans, winner would have to play Von. This is unfair to Von b/c he already won his spot (and risked losing that spot once). Why should he have to re-defend it and risk losing it again?
10 Sep 2016, 23:50 PM
#103
5 
Posts: 16697 | Subs: 12
I feel for Noggano. It pains me to think that one of the top players in this scene who earned the right to fight for the championship is now really wishing we didn't reach the 5th milestone. Now he's thinking, "dang, I shoulda lost intentionally in the Semi-Finals so at least I would still have a chance to win $750." It's all just so backwards.
Without Noggano playing in the finals, this event is pretty much borked. His run was exciting to watch and he achieved some great upsets. DevM already beat Jesulin, I hardly want to see them play again. Von didn't earn a spot in the finals, I don't want to see him vs. DevM either. If Relic is gonna flat-out DQ the guy that earned the spot based on some fine print rule technicality, they should at least compensate him. Major Bloodnock was right... if having a passport was a requirement, passports should have been checked at the start, not right before the finals.
I was really looking forward to VonIvan vs. Jesulin for 3rd place... I thought that was gonna be a pretty good match-up and a fun set for a really good prize ($750 is a lot for this scene).
Without Noggano playing in the finals, this event is pretty much borked. His run was exciting to watch and he achieved some great upsets. DevM already beat Jesulin, I hardly want to see them play again. Von didn't earn a spot in the finals, I don't want to see him vs. DevM either. If Relic is gonna flat-out DQ the guy that earned the spot based on some fine print rule technicality, they should at least compensate him. Major Bloodnock was right... if having a passport was a requirement, passports should have been checked at the start, not right before the finals.
I was really looking forward to VonIvan vs. Jesulin for 3rd place... I thought that was gonna be a pretty good match-up and a fun set for a really good prize ($750 is a lot for this scene).
10 Sep 2016, 23:55 PM
#104
Posts: 26
I feel for Noggano. It pains me to think that one of the top players in this scene who earned the right to fight for the championship is now really wishing we didn't reach the 5th milestone. Now he's thinking, "dang, I shoulda lost intentionally in the Semi-Finals so at least I would still have a chance to win $750." It's all just so backwards.
Without Noggano playing in the finals, this event is pretty much borked. His run was exciting to watch and he achieved some great upsets. DevM already beat Jesulin, I hardly want to see them play again. Von didn't earn a spot in the finals, I don't want to see him vs. DevM either. If Relic is gonna flat-out DQ the guy that earned the spot based on some fine print rule technicality, they should at least compensate him. Major Bloodnock was right... if having a passport was a requirement, passports should have been checked at the start, not right before the finals.
I was really looking forward to VonIvan vs. Jesulin for 3rd place... I thought that was gonna be a pretty good match-up and a fun set for a really good prize ($750 is a lot for this scene).
If there has to be a DQ, why not do it in a way so no one is really punished. I'm not saying it's ideal, but I feel it's damage control with no real victims. Von gets a pass only because he happened to be the one who played against Noggano in the most recent match. How else could you fix the DQ without someone really losing out. If Nog is DQ'd from the finals alone then someone has to either get a free pass, a second chance at playing or someone has to defend their spot a second time. I think that would be far more damaging to someone that has no fault (just my opinion obviously).
I guess 3rd/4th match could be a match for 3rd and winner moves to 1st/2nd match. Then one still loses out (Nog).
10 Sep 2016, 23:58 PM
#105
5 Posts: 16697 | Subs: 12
This is so ridiculous. If you DQ a player, the other player wins.
In what universe do we wind back the clock and give somebody else a chance???
If you DQ Noggano, Devm wins. That's just basic tournament rules. It's a single-elimination tournament. Those who lost (Von, Jesulin, and all the rest), ARE ELIMINATED. What are we playing here, Back to the Future?
In what universe do we wind back the clock and give somebody else a chance???
If you DQ Noggano, Devm wins. That's just basic tournament rules. It's a single-elimination tournament. Those who lost (Von, Jesulin, and all the rest), ARE ELIMINATED. What are we playing here, Back to the Future?
11 Sep 2016, 00:06 AM
#106
Posts: 26
This is so ridiculous. If you DQ a player, the other player wins.
In what universe do we wind back the clock and give somebody else a chance???
If you DQ Noggano, Devm wins. That's just basic tournament rules. It's a single-elimination tournament. Those who lost (Von, Jesulin, and all the rest), ARE ELIMINATED. What are we playing here, Back to the Future?
So the tourney ends with a 1st place ribbon and no final event or trip for the other competitors. Good call.
Tourney is over everyone, no finals. Ami says so.
Had this happened in OCF you'd bend over backwards to fix this someway somehow. You wouldn't have just cancelled the finals to follow strict rules in the serious world of video games... you know that.
11 Sep 2016, 00:09 AM
#107
10 
Posts: 4785 | Subs: 3
So the tourney ends with a 1st place ribbon and no final event or trip for the other competitors. Good call.
Tourney is over everyone, no finals. Ami says so.
Had this happened in OCF you'd bend over backwards to fix this someway somehow. You wouldn't have just cancelled the finals to follow strict rules in the serious world of video games... you know that.
+1
11 Sep 2016, 00:12 AM
#108
Posts: 875 | Subs: 6
It's messy but Noganno had about 2 months to get a passport sorted and made absolutely no attempt to do so, nobody's fault but his own.
The trip to Vancouver was entirely free, for the tournament that he entered for free. If he can't adhere to the tournaments rules and the terms and conditions that were disclaimed at the start, too bad, someone should take his place.
The trip to Vancouver was entirely free, for the tournament that he entered for free. If he can't adhere to the tournaments rules and the terms and conditions that were disclaimed at the start, too bad, someone should take his place.
11 Sep 2016, 00:16 AM
#109
5 Posts: 16697 | Subs: 12
So are we following strict rules or not? You can't have it both ways. You wanna follow strict rules to DQ Noggano but you wanna bend the rules of a single-elimination tournament to allow the other guys another chance?
11 Sep 2016, 00:17 AM
#110
Posts: 26
It's messy but Noganno had about 2 months to get a passport sorted and made absolutely no attempt to do so, nobody's fault but his own.
The trip to Vancouver was entirely free, for the tournament that he entered for free. If he can't adhere to the tournaments rules and the terms and conditions that were disclaimed at the start, too bad, someone should take his place.
SO how do you fix this without ruining the tourney entirely? I suggested a way that no one would be hurt (including Nog), minimal impact on the bracket and the tourney would go on. (https://www.coh2.org/topic/56348/relic-s-wpc-change-of-plan/post/567419)
If everyone is so set on kicking Nog out entirely, it can still be done without ruining the tournament. DQ him at the match against Von. Von "wins" that match (#29) and moves to the final with a free pass. Jesulin win 3rd with no opponent and the final still happens.
11 Sep 2016, 00:21 AM
#111
Posts: 26
So are we following strict rules or not? You can't have it both ways. You wanna follow strict rules to DQ Noggano but you wanna bend the rules of a single-elimination tournament to allow the other guys another chance?
You must not have read my initial suggestion. What other guys are getting a second chance?
11 Sep 2016, 00:23 AM
#112
5 Posts: 16697 | Subs: 12
Wow TheMachine. Vilifying Noggano is adding insult to injury. Please don't do it.
When I first read the idea of War Paint, I knew at that very moment that if a Russian would make the finals (i.e. Jove), and if the 5th milestone was reached (two big if's), this would be a problem. It is not easy for a Russian to get a passport and a travel visa in a timely manner. This is a notorious problem in other huge games like CS:GO and DOTA2. What good would it have done had he bent over backwards trying to get a passport 2 months ago when it generally takes 3 months to get one? And what if he made all of those efforts and he didn't even make the finals? The hassle probably wasn't even worth it to him. Are you saying he should have not played at all? That's crap.
When I first read the idea of War Paint, I knew at that very moment that if a Russian would make the finals (i.e. Jove), and if the 5th milestone was reached (two big if's), this would be a problem. It is not easy for a Russian to get a passport and a travel visa in a timely manner. This is a notorious problem in other huge games like CS:GO and DOTA2. What good would it have done had he bent over backwards trying to get a passport 2 months ago when it generally takes 3 months to get one? And what if he made all of those efforts and he didn't even make the finals? The hassle probably wasn't even worth it to him. Are you saying he should have not played at all? That's crap.
11 Sep 2016, 01:09 AM
#113
Posts: 1617
11 Sep 2016, 05:09 AM
#114
Posts: 2487 | Subs: 21
11 Sep 2016, 05:30 AM
#115
Posts: 836 | Subs: 5
Relic originally announced that the finals would take place on Sept.11th, one week after the Quarters/Semis. Thinking that two players could be flown from anywhere in the world to Vancouver with less than 7 days to arrange the trips was a ludicrous notion in the first place. We all saw problems with this coming from a mile away.
To then go and cite some fine print in the rules to DISQUALIFY NOGGANO for not being able to satisfy this condition is completely and utterly unfair and unreasonable. The original plan/rules said ONE WEEK. What is it now, one month? A month in a half? Things are being changed along the way, so you can't go and say "well he broke the terms and conditions of the rules" because you are changing those rules as we go. Basically, Noggano should not be blamed for poor planning on Relic's part. He deserves the second place prize at minimum.
Relic clearly stated that if milestone 5 were to be hit, that the grand finals would be delayed pending travel planning.
Yeah, I agree its a fucked situation, but don't make things up.
Give Noggano the 2nd place prize money, let whatever two guys get flown out fight for the 1st place and 3rd place money, problem solved.
 | Playercard of Dusty | |||||||||||||||
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Devils_Brigade: man captain molo why dont you just buy and m3 drive that around instead of playing coh
11 Sep 2016, 07:40 AM
#116
Posts: 224
This is so ridiculous. If you DQ a player, the other player wins.
In what universe do we wind back the clock and give somebody else a chance???
If you DQ Noggano, Devm wins. That's just basic tournament rules. It's a single-elimination tournament. Those who lost (Von, Jesulin, and all the rest), ARE ELIMINATED. What are we playing here, Back to the Future?
This is actually the point here.
We have two guys in the final, one forfeits, thing is over, end of story.
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11 Sep 2016, 09:03 AM
#117
Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4
Permanently BannedIt's messy but Noganno had about 2 months to get a passport sorted and made absolutely no attempt to do so, nobody's fault but his own.
The trip to Vancouver was entirely free, for the tournament that he entered for free. If he can't adhere to the tournaments rules and the terms and conditions that were disclaimed at the start, too bad, someone should take his place.
Do you know how make passport in Russia ? How many its cost ? Do you know what documents need for him and time to get it ? Before you write it ?
Relic killing our game, lets save COH2 from Relic 
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
11 Sep 2016, 09:10 AM
#118
Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4
Permanently Banned
Tournament organization from Relic just FailFish and NotLikeThis (change brackets 4Head). People blame Noggano, but dont blame Relic BrookeBack. If you change rules (battle whos gone instead Noggano), so i dont see problem that he play from Russia final vs DevM (in both exmaple you change rules). To be honest i respect Jesulin and Ivan, but imo now thay are to weak vs DevM and its be game only one goal.
Relic killing our game, lets save COH2 from Relic
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
If you're not a ахіs lover when you're 20, you have no heart. If you're not a soviet fanboy by the time you're 30, you have no brain.
Relic delenda est
If Dane will be have son, he will be call him (Sturmgeschütz)
Brotheres, what we do in coh2, ehoes in eternity
11 Sep 2016, 09:11 AM
#119
5 Posts: 93
I really apreciate that relic organizes this tournament, but can someone enlighten me about what the point is to fly the players to Vancouver in the first place?
I really dont get it. Is it meant to be part of the price? To me it feels more like a punishment in the first place. And if it is meant to be part of the price, is it not kind of silliy to disqualiify someone that cant accept the price?
I really dont get it. Is it meant to be part of the price? To me it feels more like a punishment in the first place. And if it is meant to be part of the price, is it not kind of silliy to disqualiify someone that cant accept the price?
11 Sep 2016, 09:19 AM
#120
14 
Posts: 10665 | Subs: 9
Do you know how make passport in Russia ? How many its cost ? Do you know what documents need for him and time to get it ? Before you write it ?
I rather suspect you might. Do enlighten us.
According to this guide for Russians already abroad, it could take 3 months. I assume that time limits for domestic applications will be little different.
http://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/46679/how-long-should-it-take-to-get-a-russian-passport
In the circumstances of this competition, it seems unlikely that Noggano could ever have obtained a passport in the WPC time limits. Hence my earlier suggestion that passports be checked at the start.
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