[2vs2] RIP Axis

The pershing is only like a medium tank in terms of hp(even though it has more than most) and mobility. Otherwise its cost, damage output, and armour are more similar to a heavy tank. I don't know why this is even still being argued. It's a heavy tank not a medium, at least in this game anyway.

So... Coment is heavy tank as well?

And Churchill medium?

Pershing is like Panther but with better AI, worse armor and a bit slower.

The pershing is only like a medium tank in terms of hp(even though it has more than most) and mobility. Otherwise its cost, damage output, and armour are more similar to a heavy tank. I don't know why this is even still being argued. It's a heavy tank not a medium, at least in this game anyway.

Soo..... according to your logic, vet2 puma is light vehicle, but vet3 puma is medium tank, because its gun is as good as medium tanks, AT dedicated, but still as good as medium.

Soo..... according to your logic, vet2 puma is light vehicle, but vet3 puma is medium tank, because its gun is as good as medium tanks, AT dedicated, but still as good as medium.

It could be considered a tank destroyer but not a tank because tanks are mainly meant to support infantry but the Puma is only useful as an AT unit but it would still be a light tank destroyer because its gun would be small for tank destroyers and it has very light armor.

The Pershing is a heavy tank because its gun size and armor are much greater than other American mediums and just because the German military had different standards for what a medium was and what a heavy was doesn't make the Pershing a medium and this fits into the game well because the USF are supposed to have inferior armor in the same categories compared to the Axis.

this fuc**** discussion
a tank is not considerd light or medium or heavy by gun or armor but a combination of the 2 and the overall stats
no pershing is not medium cause it has supperior stats of the normal medium (panther comet)
and yes churchil comet and panther are advanced medium
stop this stupid discussion and get back on topic

It could be considered a tank destroyer but not a tank because tanks are mainly meant to support infantry but the Puma is only useful as an AT unit but it would still be a light tank destroyer because its gun would be small for tank destroyers and it has very light armor.

The Pershing is a heavy tank because its gun size and armor are much greater than other American mediums and just because the German military had different standards for what a medium was and what a heavy was doesn't make the Pershing a medium and this fits into the game well because the USF are supposed to have inferior armor in the same categories compared to the Axis.

But Sherman or E8 are not inferior to Pz 4, Jackson is not that inferior to JPIV.

If we take a look at all heavy tanks: Tiger, Elephnat, King Tiger, Sturmtiger, Jadgtiger, IS2, ISU152, Churchills, they have 2 things in common:
- slow speed
- high HP pool
Size of a gun, AoE, cost don't matter becasue we have huge AoE like ISU, or no AoE like Elephant, very expensive tank like King Tiger and way less expensive like Churchill, yet HP pool and speed is something they share.

What about heavy-mediums? Panther, Comet, to some extent Easy Eight and T35-85, but mostly only Panther and Comet:
- high speed
- medium hp pool
- good vs infantry (except Panther)
- armor which matches heavy tanks (Panther & Comet)

So here is thing. Whic group has more in common with Pershing?

Pershing perfetly fits in heavy-medium group like Comet and Panter. It has way more in common with them than with Tiger or IS2. Heavy tank are not made for fast flank, Pershing is, like Panther or Comet.

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@UP What supierior stats Pershing has to Panther? Only AI but apart from that, armor, speed, cost and worse.

This thread was made for stupid trolling, so painfull to read comments.

But Sherman or E8 are not inferior to Pz 4, Jackson is not that inferior to JPIV.

If we take a look at all heavy tanks: Tiger, Elephnat, King Tiger, Sturmtiger, Jadgtiger, IS2, ISU152, Churchills, they have 2 things in common:
- slow speed
- high HP pool
Size of a gun, AoE, cost don't matter becasue we have huge AoE like ISU, or no AoE like Elephant, very expensive tank like King Tiger and way less expensive like Churchill, yet HP pool and speed is something they share.

What about heavy-mediums? Panther, Comet, to some extent Easy Eight and T35-85, but mostly only Panther and Comet:
- high speed
- medium hp pool
- good vs infantry (except Panther)
- armor which matches heavy tanks (Panther & Comet)

So here is thing. Whic group has more in common with Pershing?

Pershing perfetly fits in heavy-medium group like Comet and Panter. It has way more in common with them than with Tiger or IS2. Heavy tank are not made for fast flank, Pershing is, like Panther or Comet.

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@UP What supierior stats Pershing has to Panther? Only AI but apart from that, armor, speed, cost and worse.

I should have been more clear, most American tanks are inferior to their German counterparts, the Sherman and the p4 are pretty similar and the E8 is definitely better but neither are as good as a Panther and I wasnt even trying to compare tank destroyers.

Gun size does definitely matter except for the Churchill because the gun sizes of heavies are all bigger than the mediums in their own faction and once again when you look at weather or not the Pershing is a heavy, you need to look at the other American tanks not the tanks of all factions and the fact is, the Pershing has a bigger gun,thicker armor and a heavier weight than other American tanks and it doesn't matter how good the Panther is because it is a German tank and it is not quite as good as the Pershing.

You must be new here

These are guys who when 2 years ago the ISU-152 was 1 shotting squads at 100 range.... said things were balanced.

hhaha I remember that, but in another thread, in the same patch season, complained ele range was too much.

So... Coment is heavy tank as well?

And Churchill medium?

Pershing is like Panther but with better AI, worse armor and a bit slower.

ok let's put your logic for inf unit : riflemen become elite and ober become normal inf right ?

ok let's put your logic for inf unit : riflemen become elite and ober become normal inf right ?

Becase.... ?

I should have been more clear, most American tanks are inferior to their German counterparts, the Sherman and the p4 are pretty similar and the E8 is definitely better but neither are as good as a Panther and I wasnt even trying to compare tank destroyers.

Gun size does definitely matter except for the Churchill because the gun sizes of heavies are all bigger than the mediums in their own faction and once again when you look at weather or not the Pershing is a heavy, you need to look at the other American tanks not the tanks of all factions and the fact is, the Pershing has a bigger gun,thicker armor and a heavier weight than other American tanks and it doesn't matter how good the Panther is because it is a German tank and it is not quite as good as the Pershing.

If you look only at USF, you are right, but overall in CoH2 Pershing has everything what heavy-mediums have and only price of the true heavy.

But if you look at soviets, you have KV1 - heavy tank and IS2 also heavy but the difference between them is huge.

Well, I prefer to take overall look at the game, not just at one faction

Pershing is a 13CP doctrinal call-in tank with a only-one-at-a-time restriction. Sounds a lot like the Tiger or IS-2 to me.

Pershing is a 13CP doctrinal call-in tank with a only-one-at-a-time restriction. Sounds a lot like the Tiger or IS-2 to me.

Or command panther?
Last I've checked, command panther wasn't heavy.

Or command panther?
Last I've checked, command panther wasn't heavy.

But you are still limited to 1 regardless

Becase.... ?



If you look only at USF, you are right, but overall in CoH2 Pershing has everything what heavy-mediums have and only price of the true heavy.

But if you look at soviets, you have KV1 - heavy tank and IS2 also heavy but the difference between them is huge.

Well, I prefer to take overall look at the game, not just at one faction

Well if its too expensive than maybe its cost should be reduced because its the worst heavy other than the KV 1

Yes the KV 1 and the IS2 (and the KV 2 which you must have forgot) are different but the KV 1 is still bigger and heavier than t-34 but it was an early war heavy tank while the IS 2 was a late war heavy tank.

I like to look at all factions as well but the fact is that the Pershing is definitely an American heavy just like the KV 1 is a soviet heavy but the KV 1 isnt limited too one (If I remember correctly) because its performance doesn't have much of an impact in the game compared to other heavies.

Or command panther?
Last I've checked, command panther wasn't heavy.

Command Panther is essentially a specialist vehicle that happens to be pretty good at killing other tanks. Pershing is general-purpose tank, like the Tiger and IS-2.

I mean, there are lots of expensive call-in tanks, like AVRE and Sturmtiger and Crocodile, but the Tiger, IS-2, and Pershing all have essentially the exact same role. They perform differently, sure, but they do basically the same thing. It's like Usain Bolt and, I dunno, Justin Gatlin. Bolt is faster but both he and Gatlin compete in the same event.

Command Panther is essentially a specialist vehicle that happens to be pretty good at killing other tanks. Pershing is general-purpose tank, like the Tiger and IS-2.

It doesn't change the fact that limit to 1 and cost of 230 fuel are the only two things connecting it with heavies.

I mean, there are lots of expensive call-in tanks, like AVRE and Sturmtiger and Crocodile, but the Tiger, IS-2, and Pershing all have essentially the exact same role. They perform differently, sure, but they do basically the same thing. It's like Usain Bolt and, I dunno, Justin Gatlin. Bolt is faster but both he and Gatlin compete in the same event.

Not really, how you use tiger and IS-2 is entirely different then how you use Pershing.

Pershing can't take a punch or spearhead attack, its as much a tank hunter as comet or panther, but with excellent AI.

Can we stop discussing about a tag ?

The long range capability is adjusted. As originally stated, the longe range damage of 2 bars is less than that of one lmg42. Add to that the fact that it is two dps sources not one, which will accordingly spread the damage usually amongst two entities of an enemy squad not one and therefore reduce the enemy squad's dps less effectively even if they were doing the same damage.

At range 35, which is the border within firing or not doing so. At 30, 2 bar will surpass an LMG42. And something you are not accounting for, is that BAR do have focus fire set off, which means extra DPS which can't be account for (scatter hits) and can be used on the move (opposed to LMGs) with lesser penalties than normal.

Garand: 6.76	5.84	4.33	3.40	2.80	2.34	1.97	1.67
BAR:    13.97	13.97	10.45	7.99	6.97	6.03	5.17	4.37
Bar2.0: 					5.00	4.00	3.00
PG:     15.35	15.35	12.81	10.10	7.69	5.46	3.38	1.44
Gren:   5.76	5.07	4.37	3.82	3.37	3.00	2.59	2.26
LMG42:  6.32	6.97	7.56	8.10	8.57	8.99	9.26	9.20

I would adjust Falls and Obers STG as well, but they need further changes/buffs on the units before nerfing them on that aspect (long range performance)

This "argument" is nonsense. You can be a bad player (not implying he actually is) and reach midskill with an easy faction yet still lose versus absolutely godlike players who play the weaker faction. Thus you will not reach the top 10.

But you can reach something as top200 Didn't we have people back then which were like rank 1000 get to top levels by spamming maxims on 1v1 ?
There have been braindead faction balance across the lifespawn of the game.
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But i'm sure this is not the actual case, and the guy complaining is having L2P rather than "balance" problems.

so yeah... i think axis are disadvantaguous in 2v2s...

It doesn't change the fact that limit to 1 and cost of 230 fuel are the only two things connecting it with heavies.

I had to post this. I had to. Pershing uses heavy skin. Panther uses medium skin. There you go. So yeah, more than two things.

I had to post this. I had to. Pershing uses heavy skin. Panther uses medium skin. There you go. So yeah, more than two things.

Still, its a comet with better gun and heftier cost.