Cyberbullying Legislation In Poland

I'd like to remind the people who keep saying, "get thicker skin" or "if he gets offended he has mental issues" or any other sentiment essentially saying it's somehow Wada's fault is grade A victim blaming.

You know, the same defense that rapists and fucking goofs use in court to justify the horrible things that they do.

Yes, things wouldn't have been so bad for Wada if he took it less personally, or even ignored it, but that doesn't make him getting offended wrong. The person who is being an asshole for no reason is clearly the one at fault, anyone who uses some sort of ridiculous logical fallacy to justify it is insane.

I'd like to remind the people who keep saying, "get thicker skin" or "if he gets offended he has mental issues" or any other sentiment essentially saying it's somehow Wada's fault is grade A victim blaming.

You know, the same defense that rapists and fucking goofs use in court to justify the horrible things that they do.

Yes, things wouldn't have been so bad for Wada if he took it less personally, or even ignored it, but that doesn't make him getting offended wrong. The person who is being an asshole for no reason is clearly the one at fault, anyone who uses some sort of ridiculous logical fallacy to justify it is insane.

You're forgetting this is the internet. Also this is extremely incomparable to rapists.

I'm not saying it's comparable in severity, I'm attempting to explain why this reasoning is flawed.

Also I think theres some age discrimination with Relic if we remember the hans and vonivan ordeal. Hans was like just turned 18 at the time I think and Relic banned vonivan for bullying.

Dear all,

I would love to write about strategy, balance, Relic's shortcomings, tournaments and all the stuff this community loves to talk about. I am not doing that today.

This post is about a very serious matter that cannot be ignored. As a community, I like to think we have a responsibility to take care of our fellow community members. As individuals, we have rights and obligations. Some of our rights, like freedom of speech and having fun, meet their boundary when they get in the way of other's rights. It is unfair and unreasonable for me to exercise my rights to the detriment of others. It is plainly wrong to voluntarily inflict psychological distress to others through cyberbullying (for a definition of the term, please see: https://www.stopbullying.gov/cyberbullying/what-is-it/).

This post is about BartonPL and particularly, but not exclusively, his constant abuse to Shadowwada.

I started following Shadow for some months now because his streams are not only very educational, but also very fun to watch. The guy has a talent for stand-up comedy and will answer any question put to him regarding better strategies, counter strategies and game-related stuff. In the past two or three weeks, I have noticed BartonPL continuously harassing Shadowwada for some reason that is unknown to me. A non-comprehensive list of BartonPL's actions include having stream-sniped Shadow's stream, abused Shadowwada by constantly following him on Twitch while Shadow is playing (i.e. I counted 8 follows in one 10-minute game), and has also used very offensive fake names (i.e. shadowwadapoosyloser, waddacrybaby, waddapronoob or similar - I didn't write them down). There was one particular stream where Shadowwada was so stressed from the constant harassment that he stated he was quitting the community altogether. He did so with a broken voice and teary eyes because he was obviously under a lot of emotional distress caused by BartonPL and his deliberate actions (and fueled by idiots in Wadda's stream that seemed to find the ongoing harassment very funny). Even tonight while I was watching VonIvan's game against Hans, I saw that "someone" under the name of Waddapoosywhinner started following VonIvan. I am positive, but not 100% certain, that this was BartonPL because Shadowwada said in passing during one of his streams this week that he had complained to Relic about BartonPL, and Relic was looking into suspending BartonPl.

Enough is enough.

I am inviting members of this community to publicly denounce BartonPL's antics. I am specially inviting Shadowadda and any victims of BartonPL to provide evidence of the effect that BartonPL's abuse has had on them. BartonPL is obviously part of the invitation in case he wishes to comment on anything said here. The purpose behind this invitation is twofold:

First, we need to raise awareness regarding cyberbulluing in our community. Cyberbullying has had very dramatic consequences for its victims, including suicide. I know as I write this that some of you might dismiss this post, but cyberbullying needs to be stopped at the outset. Who knows how certain individuals feel or will act when being confronted to heavy and relentlessness bullying? In denouncing BartonPl and any other bullies, we are keeping our community and fellow gamers safe.

Second, I wish to publicly warn BartonPL and any bullies out there that there are laws in each of your jurisdictions against cyberbullying. Specifically Poland passed a law in 2011 that provides for jail in case of persistent online harassment. See, for instance, http://ac.els-cdn.com/S1877042813050489/1-s2.0-S1877042813050489-main.pdf?_tid=81a0ab6c-6be5-11e6-a3a1-00000aacb360&acdnat=1472254594_d67e13ebeba7f8f05fb68a2a64e51b60. I'm not making empty statements. There are legal consequences to what BartonPl is doing and people should be made aware of this to discourage similar behavior.

I hope my post will not be misrepresented as a call against occasional jokes, exceptional angry outbursts, or some well-intended but short-lived trolling. All of these things happen as long as they are spontaneous. BartonPL is, however, no ordinary "troll". He persistently targets Shadowwada, humiliates him online and constantly offends Shadow in Shadow's own stream. There is no reasonable justification to such behavior, that is self-evidently publicly displayed to inflict more damage to Shadow (for instance, one thing would be to criticize Shadow in the forums, and another to call him poosy in his own stream).

Lastly, query whether it makes sense for Relic, Steam and/or SEGA to keep ignoring bullies like BartonPL. From a legal perspective, they profit from a product and an online platform that allows players to interact. Can they turn a blind eye to cyberbullying while making revenue off the product? What if something were to happen to a cyberbullying victim? Would a judge in any respectable jurisdiction be sympathetic to Relic, Steam or SEGA if they acknowledge they were aware of the bullying, but did nothing to prevent or stop it?

Kind regards,
Napito

Sorry for people who get their feelings hurt. Feelsbadman

Err...

Is it hypocritical or wrong to say "cba" to this thread?

I'd like to remind the people who keep saying, "get thicker skin" or "if he gets offended he has mental issues" or any other sentiment essentially saying it's somehow Wada's fault is grade A victim blaming.

You know, the same defense that rapists and fucking goofs use in court to justify the horrible things that they do.

Yes, things wouldn't have been so bad for Wada if he took it less personally, or even ignored it, but that doesn't make him getting offended wrong. The person who is being an asshole for no reason is clearly the one at fault, anyone who uses some sort of ridiculous logical fallacy to justify it is insane.

The logic is not as flawed as it may seem. You can get offended for whatever reason from any random person in the internet, especially in multiplayer video games. Banning Barton or whatever other troll won't change that, there would always be someone that will find and use wadas weakness. For his own good he should take it as a lesson and work on himself, instead of sueing people. It would help him in whatever he does, in the internet or not. In fact, nobody is resistant to bullying from birth, we all learn it one way or another, usually as a child. It's about time for Wada to get this skill, too, as we all need it.

Btw, if they took it to the court, where would the trial happen? Anybody knows? There is not even a specific site of this 'crime'.

The logic is not as flawed as it may seem. You can get offended for whatever reason from any random person in the internet, especially in multiplayer video games. Banning Barton or whatever other troll won't change that, there would always be someone that will find and use wadas weakness. For his own good he should take it as a lesson and work on himself, instead of sueing people. It would help him in whatever he does, in the internet or not. In fact, nobody is resistant to bullying from birth, we all learn it one way or another, usually as a child. It's about time for Wada to get this skill, too, as we all need it.

Btw, if they took it to the court, where would the trial happen? Anybody knows? There is not even a specific site of this 'crime'.

Does this even have anything to do with what I said? Surely you aren't suggesting that a bully is helping a victim out of the kindness of their heart to prepare them for a hard life.

Is having a thick skin beneficial to your emotional health when people are assholes to you? Yes, absolutely. Is the person getting bullied and upset in the wrong? No, of course not.

As I said before, even suggesting something else is insanity.

also, " For his own good he should take it as a lesson and work on himself, instead of sueing[sic] people "

Wada hasn't even acknowledged this thread and we should all try to not put words into anyone's mouth.

Does this even have anything to do with what I said? Surely you aren't suggesting that a bully is helping a victim out of the kindness of their heart to prepare them for a hard life.

Is having a thick skin beneficial to your emotional health when people are assholes to you? Yes, absolutely. Is the person getting bullied and upset in the wrong? No, of course not.

As I said before, even suggesting something else is insanity.

also, " For his own good he should take it as a lesson and work on himself, instead of sueing[sic] people "

Wada hasn't even acknowledged this thread and we should all try to not put words into anyone's mouth.

Well, I'm not saying Barton does it for Wada, just that Wada himself can take advantage of this experience. I also didn't say he wants to sue Barton, just that he shouldn't do it. Some people here suggested it as a solution which would a big exagerration and in fact escalation of conflict.

1. Wada needs to get some thicker skin. They poor guy was just about in tears because Barton exposed him for not being a top tier player. There was big time harassment too, I get that, but I know a large part of the butthurt was due to the fact that he was losing every time. If Barton was trolling and losing half of the time, I think we would have a different story here.

2. Barton is a pos and needs to go. There's a difference between being rude and this level of harrassment, which is essentially stalking. Had he sniped him one time, called Wada a braindead dipshit, and then fucked off...no big deal. But if you're trolling someone persisently for several hours multiple days per week, that is the kind of offense that gets restraining orders in real life. Its not about being mean or unsporting, its legit stalking, an absurd invasion of privacy.

Get real, nobody gives a fuck on the internet, if you do that's your problem, nobody else.

I appreciate your post as you address the more serious issue of cyberbullying. I would like to clarify the main three stances with this issue as I believe no one is disagreeing with you or myself.

1. Napito's position - Cyberbullying is bad and an extremely serious crime. Barton should be punished due to the severity of the crime.

2. Shadowwada's position - Prominent members of our community shouldn't harass other prominent members since it reflects poorly on our esports scene & community. Barton should be banned so people know relic & the coh2 community doesn't support such harassment. (I also agree it is a bad crime so there should be punishment; I viewed it more under the lens of a community/esports issue rather than just seeing it as a cyberbullying crime)

3. The "Thicker Skin/Don't Feed The Trolls" position - shadowwada should not let it get to him because he is actively feeding Barton. Shadowwada should have ignored Barton.

I agree one should have thicker skin but I also believe harassers should be punished. These positions are not mutually exclusive. To suggest these are mutually exclusive is to victim blame; "shadowwada deserved the harassment since he fed the trolls and he was soft skinned" This is akin to blaming a rape victim for getting too drunk or walking alone in a bad neighborhood. While it is good advice to avoid bad neighborhoods and avoid getting black out drunk, it doesn't condone the rapist's rape. As Napito said, Barton's actions are cyberbullying and should be punished accordingly.

As I've said, it reflects poorly on our community. If we want our esports scene to grow (by extension supporting the game growing), we must punish Barton. People won't join our community if they know harassment is par for the course. Why would anyone get into this scene when you have better alternatives such as League of Legends; Riot hired Jeffery "Lyte" Lin to specifically curb the playerbase's toxic behavior as well as Riot banning specific toxic players such as major twitch streamer Tyler1. This is one of the many reasons why League of Legends is a better game and a bigger esport than CoH2. Relic needs to learn from Riot's example.

Lastly, I find Relic's lack of transparency disheartening as Relic has been completely silent, despite letting Barton play. The Barton harassment situation has been an issue for over the past month as Barton harassed my stream, one of the few daily coh2 streams. If we wish our esports scene to grow, Relic needs to make their decisions transparent. By letting Barton play in warpaint & automatch, they condone Barton's actions so they have an obligation to provide an explanation since many prominent players, streamers, and community members are against Barton's actions. This issue should have been addressed long before I had to bring it to light and even now, after providing documented evidence of in-game & twitch harassment and showing the community's support for shadowwada, Relic has failed to act and they've fail to communicate to us.

1. Wada needs to get some thicker skin. They poor guy was just about in tears because Barton exposed him for not being a top tier player. There was big time harassment too, I get that, but I know a large part of the butthurt was due to the fact that he was losing every time. If Barton was trolling and losing half of the time, I think we would have a different story here.

It has nothing to do with Barton beating me. My main "butthurt" is due to being fed up with coh2 & relic, barton harassing one of the few people trying to make coh2 great, and relic not doing anything about it thus forcing me to compile evidence and make a thread about it AND RELIC STILL HASNT EVEN TALKED ABOUT THIS ISSUE. This is the main reason I'm not playing well because I'm getting to the point where I don't get any enjoyment out of CoH2 and reaching my breaking point. It would be sooooooo much easier if I didn't give a shit about the future of coh2 & the esports scene, as many of our top tier players have this detached mindset.

Also the whole "ZOMG SHADOWWADA SUX" type of comments are silly. At the end of the day, no one can argue I'm in the top 20 CoH2 players and top 3 NA players.

2. Shadowwada's position - Prominent members of our community shouldn't harass other prominent members since it reflects poorly on our esports scene & community. Barton should be banned so people know relic & the coh2 community doesn't support such harassment. (I also agree it is a bad crime so there should be punishment; I viewed it more under the lens of a community/esports issue rather than just seeing it as a cyberbullying crime)

...

As I've said, it reflects poorly on our community. If we want our esports scene to grow (by extension supporting the game growing), we must punish Barton. People won't join our community if they know harassment is par for the course. Why would anyone get into this scene when you have better alternatives such as League of Legends; Riot hired Jeffery "Lyte" Lin to specifically curb the playerbase's toxic behavior as well as Riot banning specific toxic players such as major twitch streamer Tyler1. This is one of the many reasons why League of Legends is a better game and a bigger esport than CoH2. Relic needs to learn from Riot's example.

Also the whole "ZOMG SHADOWWADA SUX" type of comments are silly. At the end of the day, no one can argue I'm in the top 20 CoH2 players and top 3 NA players.

Whiles there's no shortage of people in COH2 that want to see Barton banned, lets be real, you're not the best spokesperson for the #banbarton movement. You say that Barton is harassing you, and then everybody that knows that Barton his been a complete shit stain on this community since the COH1 days think "oh cool maybe Relic will notice and he will finally get his long overdue ban." And then you post a wall of text that is honestly painful to read and reeks of some sort of entitlement for being "gud" or something. It was harassment when he does it to 4v4 plebs, when he does it to you, when he does it to some top player that doesn't stream, or whoever. It didn't suddenly become bad behavior because he did it some streamer who gives himself too much credit. Not saying you're bad, but the more you self advertise your own leet coh skills, the more people you alienate from the otherwise good cause. Looking at all the 1v1 and 2v2 players that have been active and the last year or two, some of which temporarily dipped b/c bugs imbalance, etc. you are probably top 30 NA honestly.

Stop with the self promotional "I'm prominent person" talking points and you'll win more people over. Theres several of us on this site that used to stream a lot and had similar viewership when the streaming scene was 5% what it is today, and frankly we aren't that impressed. This isn't an ewok camp, and you're not C3P0; no special treatment.

the more i read about this barton kid the more i like him ^-^

I used to be a top german player when the Tiger Ace came out which makes me a prominent member of this e-sport oriented community, I also streamed once for my friend to grow and support the the scene.

Stop with the self promotional "I'm prominent person" talking points and you'll win more people over. Theres several of us on this site that used to stream a lot and had similar viewership when the streaming scene was 5% what it is today, and frankly we aren't that impressed. This isn't an ewok camp, and you're not C3P0; no special treatment.

lol you have a serious problem with your ego. I know some people speak a the 3rd of the singular, but you speak at the 1st of plurial. How many people are you in your head?

maan, I appreciate wada for being one the few current regular streamers of this little game, but his ramblings about "making coh2 great again" and the fact that he thinks that there may be a chance that this game will ACTUALLY get any better is just lol. MVGame

the more i read about this barton kid the more i like him ^-^

the more i read wadas posts, the more i like barton

lol you have a serious problem with your ego.

basilone is certainly not the person with ego problems here! he may be harsh, but rightfully so