Are Royal Engineers an Effective Fighting Unit?

I'm trying to determine how much Royal Engineers are "worth".

Unlike Infantry sections they are short range and don't have the same negative effects outside of cover. It seems like royal engineers should be good if you put them with/in front of infantry Sections, to discourage infantry from charging in, trying get close in on the Infantry sections. Provided that they are decent infantry, as opposed to tier 1 engineers that most other factions have.

I know that if you upgrade them to heavy engineers and then give them double brens they become a really good long range unit but I'm talking about before that.

Another thing I'm considering is giving them double PIATs. Fundamentally, a royal engineer squad with two PIATs and an infantry section with two PIATs do the same damage against vehicles.

Up until now, I've only built 1 royal engineer squad but I'm considering having two.

Effective? Not.
Efficient? Yes.

They lack vet bonuses to become effective, but they can be efficient when vetted and spammed. Still being hardcountered by HMGs and any kind of vehicle with crush.

As for AT weapons from weapon racks, they always should be on cheapest possible squad-USF rifles being exception because of AT nade.

Well, using them as an assault squad before you give them brens... sooner or later their luck has to run out and they get squad-wiped on retreat, before getting their vet2.

The anvil engineers... that locks you into Anvil, plus you get wiped by nades.

But with brens, first one bren for each of two squads, later double allows them to pretty safely reach vet 2 and get the repair bonus, later on vet3, they avoid MP bleed

Giving double piats can work too, but you need to use attack ground order, and even then its extremely inaccurate.

Step 1: Get 3x Engineers
Step 2: Equip them with PIATS
Optional Step: Get an Officer
Step 3: Oorah into every hostile tank
Step 4: Get Vet3
Step 5: Oorah even better into everything
Step 6: ???
Step 7: Win.

Compared to pioneers for 10 mp oh yeah. There is a reason people make entire armies of bren and piat sappers. Atleast pios get that +7 visions. THATS IT. RE can dual equip, cover bonus, better veterancy, scaling with tech upgrades.

Only drawback is they are in t2 (doesnt matter because brit t2 can be reached in first 2-3 min), and flamethrower is doctrinal. Pios need body armor with t3 or t4.

imo at least 2 PIAT engies and Croc is a must have in every game as UKF

Effective? Not.
Efficient? Yes.

They lack vet bonuses to become effective, but they can be efficient when vetted and spammed. Still being hardcountered by HMGs and any kind of vehicle with crush.

As for AT weapons from weapon racks, they always should be on cheapest possible squad-USF rifles being exception because of AT nade.

Infantry sections are countered by HMGs and vehicles with crush as well though, right? It's not like it's royal engineers specifically.

Well, using them as an assault squad before you give them brens... sooner or later their luck has to run out and they get squad-wiped on retreat, before getting their vet2.

The anvil engineers... that locks you into Anvil, plus you get wiped by nades.

But with brens, first one bren for each of two squads, later double allows them to pretty safely reach vet 2 and get the repair bonus, later on vet3, they avoid MP bleed

Giving double piats can work too, but you need to use attack ground order, and even then its extremely inaccurate.

Defensively, royal engineers and infantry sections are the same right? Though, I suppose that infantry sections die pretty easily in close range as well.

Royal engineers use SMGs so they don't do much damage at long range. If they are too dangerous to use at short range, does this mean I need avoid combat except an occasional +1 flank? Until I get brens at least. Does this mean I should actually prioritize getting brens on my royal engineers over my infantry sections?

Creating two royal engineers when they aren't a useful combat squad doesn't seem like a good idea. Or perhaps I shouldn't be getting my second royal engineer late game until I can put double PIATs or double brens on them.

Step 1: Get 3x Engineers
Step 2: Equip them with PIATS
Optional Step: Get an Officer
Step 3: Oorah into every hostile tank
Step 4: Get Vet3
Step 5: Oorah even better into everything
Step 6: ???
Step 7: Win.

Do you mean using the ability Oorah? I didn't think that they had that. Perhaps it's on one of the commanders I haven't gotten/played?

I've been wary about putting PIATs on infantry because I heard that they were bad but perhaps that was a mistake.


Hmm, now I'm starting to think it might be better to put PIATs on my royal engineers and ignore brens entirely. Unless they are going really heavy infantry and I'm using Anvil.

Royal Engineers (REs) are currently one of the silliest parts of UKF's design. REs are good, cheap meatshields to protect Infantry Sections' (IS) DPS but in long games REs can take over both roles.

Royal Engineers:
- Start off as durable as Panzergrenadiers (and IS)

- Vet 3 Panzergrenadiers are less durable than vet 3 REs (PGs 0.71 v. IS 0.76 v. REs 0.66 vet received accuracy multiplier)

- Reinforce for less (26 v. 28 manpower) than IS

- Reinforce for 13 manpower at vet 3 (Soviet weapon teams reinforce for 15)

- Benefit from Bolster Squads (which makes them more durable)

- Can equip Brens and PIATs for the same cost-to-equip of IS (An RE Bren has the far DPS of ~2.7 IS rifles)

- Receive a better Bren than IS (5%/11% more N/F DPS)

- Don't receive the out-of-cover penalty IS have (i.e., the PIAT is always better on REs and the RE Bren is better than the IS Bren's in-cover performance)

- Can receive the Heavy Engineer upgrade which effectively halves the damage REs take from small arms while increasing repair speed and equipping an (extra) IS Bren

- Can equip up to four slot items at once (Heavy Engineer Vickers K, Minesweeper/Flamethrower, and two Brens/PIATs so long as you build both upgrades before picking up Brens)

- Have all the benefits of an engineer squad (repairing, building, mine-laying, etc.)

- Cost less than IS (210 manpower v. 280 manpower)


What do IS have over REs?

Infantry Sections:
- Can receive healing/artillery upgrades

- Receive a 20% accuracy bonus and slot weapons (which can make it easier to drop Brens) at vet 3

- Do not require upgrades for effective DPS

- Benefit from certain doctrinal abilities (Commando Regiment's Assault, for example)

Obviously, a Heavy Engineer/Flamethrower/dual-Bren/5-man RE squad is too expensive (210 manpower/250 munitions without teching costs) to field in your average game but Royal Engineers with Brens or PIATs can substitute for Infantry Sections quite successfully late-game. They're definitely a unit you should take advantage of.

Hope this helps.

Honestly this is best unit you can imagine once upgraded. They don't bleed you and have great firepower. In most situations it's all you need.

This has been every helpful.

Thanks everyone.

Effective? Not.
Efficient? Yes.

They lack vet bonuses to become effective, but they can be efficient when vetted and spammed. Still being hardcountered by HMGs and any kind of vehicle with crush.

As for AT weapons from weapon racks, they always should be on cheapest possible squad-USF rifles being exception because of AT nade.

Soviets, Wehr, OKW have no weapon racks. So handheld AT is only available to the expensive or even doctrinal squads, namely Sturms, PGrens, Guards.

Do you mean using the ability Oorah? I didn't think that they had that. Perhaps it's on one of the commanders I haven't gotten/played?

It's provided by the Airlanding Officer in the Vanguard Regiment. Technically speaking, it's named Heroic Charge on him.