T70 Nerf

No, it takes 2 AT-gun shots, or 2 AT-gun shots and a faust if it pops critical repair. You will never one faust + one pak shot a t-70.

What I meant is all it takes is to snare and have an AT unit with you, and it's done, the T-70 is easy to kill, it's rare to see a T-70 survive until late game.
Panzer II and 222 have ways to escape danger thanks to their armor, T-70 has that auto-repair ( that should be removed) but honestly have you seen that many T-70 survive once they are in a bad position?

I mean jesus, you can even throw a 222 to shoot it from back side after a snare, and kill it.

The face that you said "flamer HT" means 1 of 2 things:
1.) You play only team games
2.) You are a complete noob at 1v1.

I haven't seen a Flamer HT built in 1v1 in at least a year...

If I could take out a T70 with 1 snare + at gun, I'd win every game because I always have such "options."

Only problem is t70 backs up and kills me in 3 seconds while it stays out of Pfaust range.

So what you're saying is Flamer HT is bad?
I've seen many of them in 1v1, your experience may not be what others see, flame ht is the perfect weapon against hmg spam.
The point is that it deals damage your team weapon won't be able to react to.

And don't just be that mad because somebody doesn't go your way.

I understand the scatter while mobile is a bit too much since you just kill whatever unit is retreating.
But the damage itself is adjusted so that T-70 can serve its purpose.

What I meant is all it takes is to snare and have an AT unit with you, and it's done, the T-70 is easy to kill, it's rare to see a T-70 survive until late game.
Panzer II and 222 have ways to escape danger thanks to their armor, T-70 has that auto-repair ( that should be removed) but honestly have you seen that many T-70 survive once they are in a bad position?

I mean jesus, you can even throw a 222 to shoot it from back side after a snare, and kill it.

I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about. T-70 has 70 armor, p2 has 55 and 222 has 9. luchs has only 80 more hp than the other two. Saying the t-70 is less survivable than the other two is asinine.

Remember only AEC got the "LOL smoke" when many axis tank got it(and on bigger tank). AEC is only good vs vehicule.

To wipe squad with t70 and not have it fausted/shreked u gotta wait the enemy squad to retreat to dive. if u dive u will most likely lose it to whatever is passing by (mines os it and soviet mine just manage to engine damage on luch).

i enjoyed Outsider_Sidaroth's joke about m20 is fine.

Maybe their is some balance to make but then its on both side.
Usf forced to go captain to have a reliable antitank (not speaking bout shit captn but about stuart which is not a AT)

Brits forced to go AEC to not be pushed out of map by light vehicule (can still be lost to unexpected x2 222 => huge lose of 75 fuel, more than the price of x2 222 which are good vs inf when vet)

same for soviet, gotta get one light vehicule to have something mobile and reliable to not bleed to death.

Would just reducing moving accuracy in general be a good place to start? Kiting and chasing are definitely part of the problem IMO.

I don't deny that the Flamer HT does quite good damage, Cat.

The problem with the flamer HT is that it costs 50 30 fuel, 120(?) 90 muni, and it's very fragile - probably even more so than the 222. Not to mention it's treads make it very immobile and hard to path correctly.

It gets penetrated quite easily from small arms fire, just about any squad can act as a deterrent for it and since it's so fragile to everything, one damaged engine = dead HT.

And because it needs to be in such short range to go those flames off, it's really easy to get in range of AT gun or screening units.

This is a stark contrast to a T70; you get a mobile gun platform that has little problem killing units at max range.


And on a note for the AEC: they nerfed it's main gun vs infantry, but it still does decent damage with its coaxial MG (which they buffed). This lets it deal with infantry more than easily and a lucky shot can still net you squad wipes on it.

Theodosis also made an excellent point - more AT guns = less anti infantry (meaning the Allies always have the initiative on how to counter german army. Can either exploit lack of AT or AI). While this is a natural trade off in Relic games, the problem with AT guns vs light vechs is that since they are far quicker and but more lethal than their heavier counter parts, AT guns have a tough time tracking, positioning, firing and finishing off light vechs.

Flamer HT cost 30 fuel and 90 muni. It is a good unit and is near as good as chasing units as the T 70.

Would just reducing moving accuracy in general be a good place to start? Kiting and chasing are definitely part of the problem IMO.

The problem with such a nerf though is that it can be quite easy to stutter micro it. Backing up and pressing "halt" intermittently will still make it quite accurate.

If we are going to nerf anything on the t70 we should start by looking at self-repair. The unit would be much more vulnerable to soft counters if it couldn't shrug off fausts so easily. The munitions cost is negligible since sovs are usually floating munitions by that point.

On other vehicles, since this thread is going that way:

Stuart - OK except for shellshock, which is too strong and makes the generalist unit much harder to counter with AT-specialists like the puma. Crit repair is a bit too quick, that's faction wide.

222 - OP for its cost and in a weird place, but needs to be until other options are improved.

AEC - OK

Luchs - OK

I don't think light tanks need much of a nerf. They are a critical part of the mid game in that they keep the game moving. If they are indeed nerfed it would need to come in exchange for better scalability/utility in the late game, which in reality is very difficult to achieve due to the inherent nature of the units. Squeezing their window of opportunity will just turn the meta into a race to the first medium tank.

AI light vehicle bullshit scale goes like this.

T70-> luchs -> stuart/222 [ way too spammable and cost effective ] -> AEC [ this is a pile of shit ]

did this annoying little thing actually get ninja buffed? i can only imagine this. i see even 3 man squads getting sniped with a single shot pretty often, like wtf dude..

AEC [ this is a pile of shit ]

you gotta be fcking kidding me. btw, i thought you left org because reasons?

I think the only problem with the tank is its veterancy bonuses. The stock unit is not bad, but on vet2 its firing speed and accuracy grows too high.

T70 is best tank in game if you have the micro to use it to its fullest. It has been this way for a least 2 years. I still remember hans killing a panther with a t70. LOL.

T70 for whatever reason is prone to regularly wiping squads with 2 - 3 members, if they are bunched. I have seen numerous games where t70 has dived the base when an opponent does a mass retreat and literally killed every retreated unit in 3 or 4 shots because of unit bunching in base or because they get stuck on each other.

Note the fact that the t70 is critical to sov survival does not make it immune to change, rather other areas need looking at.

Almost every player goes LV's because it is necessary to counter opponents LV or because opponent didn't go LV and thus fast-tracking to your own LV will provide the upper hand in most instances.

Whilest Lv meta is a concern, the underlying problem is the regularity of squad wipes due to bunching. Fix this issue, especially regarding retreated units and lvs will be less punishing.

Secondly, relics implementation of mines in coh2 is just retarded. Usf mines being doctrinal or behind tech is just stupid. Its a prime example of changing something that wasn't broken just for the sake of differentiating it from coh1. Ost is in a similiar position. 60 Muni tellers is another wft design decision for a faction that is not only heavily reliant on munis for survival, has no access to generalist mines and is also the most prone to squad wipes.

All factions really should be able to lay defensive mines as a soft counter to early lv play. LV meta is popular and logical because it is relatively easy and is less demanding that microing the counters.

Usf self repair is an unique faction ability that may need looking at, maybe reduce repair rate slightly. Crit repair should probably be more expensive and maybe a vet ability.

I would love to see the T-70 get a very big damage nerf and a manpower increase in exchange for having 400 health in order to make it more consistent.

+1 ! In it's current state, even if you instantly retreat squads they still have a pretty good chance of getting wiped on retreat. And it counters it's early game counters too easily imo. Sturms with shreck, Panzerfaust squads, Raketenwerfer all are very vulnerable to getting wiped so quickly by T-70. In 1v1s the unit's efficeincy dominates to an extent that the entire early game for Axis against SU revolves around how long you can delay it or counter it until your first hardcounter arrives.

On the other hand, if it happens to run into an unfavorable situation with AT gun & snare it dies quickly. The suggested changes above make sense to address both sides imo?

Greatly decrese accuracy at long range and at move so they are not that effective at kiting and chasing retreating squad. Problem solved

Greatly decrese accuracy at long range and at move so they are not that effective at kiting and chasing retreating squad. Problem solved

That's the best idea in my opinion too.

That's the best idea in my opinion too.

But there Will be much more opposition to by SU fanboys compared to what TheMashine suggested :-).