No Tech Call-in Tanks

I don't really understand tightrope myself, it pretty much feels like he is mad that some players won't let go in mid-late game and can just win with call-ins.

I'm tired of every top 100 game being riddled with call in tanks and never seeing tech, which SHOULD be the core of the game, instead requiring call in commanders (many of which you have to buy)

I feel like I gave many good examples of why proper balance is unable to happen with this mechanic in the original post.

Only ones that are problems are mediums.

Stug: e
M10
Command P4
Command Panther
Lend Lease Sherman

Just need to add a teching cost for the mediums. Heavies are fine because they come so late, there is not an advantage to not teching first.
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Also fuck the Tiger Ace, add a real fuel cost.

Yes please. Now THAT is an annoying comeback unit. I'd rather for it to not be a gimmick, and be something like 230 fuel like the real tiger, and have the manpower penalty removed/reduced.

Yes please. Now THAT is an annoying comeback unit. I'd rather for it to not be a gimmick, and be something like 230 fuel like the real tiger, and have the manpower penalty removed/reduced.

What makes it worse is that you can be winning with elite troops, get about 2 p4s, and then hit the command point to unlock the Tiger ace. Shit out the uber tank after having no fuel because you already spent it, and have an unstoppable armor force. Why does not getting any more fuel income matter if you already spent all the fuel you need? At that point you have to throw that game to lose it. Granted most 1v1s don't last that long, but come on. No fuel vehicles go against the spirit of the game.

If you want 100% balance - remove call-ins, tie them to teching.

If you want to see great comebacks, a way more strats, more exciting games, leave call ins as they are.

For me answer is simple. I don't want to see CoH2 as a pure math game with no RNG or no game-changing mechanic (like call ins).

ugh people enough with your "insert facton here" biased this or that. let not even dare start with "insert insult here" bla bla bullshit... A conversation doesn't need to degrade to this you are and should be capable of better than that. tightrope made a perfectly good poll and thread and frankly you should be able to atlest be able to be repsectful to tightrope not to ruin his thread...

/resume discussion

ugh people enough with your "insert facton here" biased this or that. let not even dare start with "insert insult here" bla bla bullshit... A conversation doesn't need to degrade to this you are and should be capable of better than that. tightrope made a perfectly good poll and thread and frankly you should be able to atlest be able to be repsectful to tightrope not to ruin his thread...

/resume discussion

well I don't mind if you remove the discussion between me and cobra but just don't remove the suggestion

I agree with Tightrope.

One thing I like about Miragefla's mod is that he ties in all call-ins to tech. The game's pace felt much better when I played it there.

Everyone knows my opinions given the work on my mod which is essentially "Call-ins Must Die" idea, but I'm just re-stating call-ins should not overshadow tech units. Ostheer is notorious for this in general as is the USF Armour Company and the armies late game call-ins.

If you want 100% balance - remove call-ins, tie them to teching.

If you want to see great comebacks, a way more strats, more exciting games, leave call ins as they are.

For me answer is simple. I don't want to see CoH2 as a pure math game with no RNG or no game-changing mechanic (like call ins).

Or we make call-ins cost more without tech. You still have that emergency "oh crap" button, but it is indeed an emergency since any sort of bank you have in resources is outright gone.

I've always thought this, its just a BS cop out that tanks can be called in with no tech required, and not just shitty tanks either, we are talking good tanks. I would even go as far as including infantry into the unlock requirements aswell.

Call-in infantry isn't a problem, as most stock infantry can be produced early on anyways.

Yea... good luck for you to survuve until CP levels of call-ins without tiering. All heavies have high CP cost, you getting enough points only in late, very rarely in middle. And sometime ago, CP requirements were increased for call-ins, so... I see nothing problematic here.

About medium and light vechilces call-ins. All those call-ins (except Ostheer Puma maybe, never used) are usualy WEAKER than their analogs in stock. M10 < M36, 105mm Sherman... what for that thing exists, Flakpanzer is trash, Flammenpanzer is trash, KV-1 is trash, KV-8... my personal opinion - trash, Stug E trash, Valentine is trash... You got it, right? So, if they are weaker and their getting will be bounded with teching - who will need them at all? Who will need M10, if it will be bounded with teching to USF T4, for example (which costs ALOT), when in same T4 I will be able to get proper AT tank, instead of that toy?

+ Don't forget, that USSR is HARDLY dependable on call-ins in their doctrines. USSR at all is highly doctrine-dependable (and it's bad), so - making call-ins integrated in tech for them will be really deadly blow to USSR. Making T-34-85 tech integrated, in my understanding, had only 1 purpouse - make new shitty T4 at least somehow attractive for people. And adding E8 in tech... who knows why it happend.

In any case, your idea is deadly for current game design, balance of some factions. I suggest you to think more about it, evaluate it's affection on game in general. Im seriously sure - it will cause more problems than benefits, just like last big patch.

P.S. In vCoH call-in tanks wasn't just binded to teching - they even didn't cost any fuel!!! I still remember, how powerful was mindfuly done "early-churchill rush" And I don't remember, that someone had problems with that.

Maybe easy 8 was transvered to tech so you cannot go liehtenaunt into captain with all light vehicles and still get winning hand once you hit CP and can start spamming easy 8 like no tommorow and get the lead.


USSR dependable on call ins? RLY ? you can go OPenals, you can go maxims, cons, get best AI light tank and cheapes but yet great medium tank and good suchkas or su 85. You can go every doctrine you want right now, even windustry or defensive are great doctrines now.

maybe you didnt mention m10 crush, cost = spamability and survivability.
maybe you didnt mention buldozer DMG when you stand still and attack ground
maybe you didnt mention stug e cost (70 fuel and 200 mp) on top with great AI if you get 2 (better than proswind)
maybe you didnt mention flakpanzer shock value, you can get 2 before USA can get 1st sherman
maybe you didnt mention IS2 tiger and pershing value, they can win you gave even if you was behind
maybe you didnt mention croco wipe potential, ah poor paks
maybe you didnt mention valentine maphack
..........................................

and the list goes on

Also problem is they are all panic buttons,


As ostheer you srew it up, so what i can get panic puma then panic commad panzer and make it to the game once again

or maybe i want more diverse play as oshteer, then i can panic call in stugs e and tiger.


As soviet you can snowball with fast t70 and quad into suckas, kv8 and is2, yea its really strong. And you can srew as many times you want because at time you lost t70 you get kv8, once you lose kv8 you get is2 (losing tanks gives you so much CP)


As USA you can go yolo with 2 stuart steal the deal and then outswarm enemy with m10s and occassional buldozer.


As okw you can play hazard mechanized play and even if you dont win you can get commad panther to negate enemy armor or 2 oswinds to deal a finishing blow


As brits you can play badly, hold with commados and At guns and then get I win button in term of unkillable beast called crocodile. On top of that you get skillplanez.



So yea, call ins are not problem itself, but problem is they allow you to make awesome comebacks even if you horribly screw it up

I'm not sure why this is a problem all of a sudden. Call-ins make the game more diverse and exciting.

Maybe easy 8 was transvered to tech so you cannot go liehtenaunt into captain with all light vehicles and still get winning hand once you hit CP and can start spamming easy 8 like no tommorow and get the lead.


USSR dependable on call ins? RLY ? you can go OPenals, you can go maxims, cons, get best AI light tank and cheapes but yet great medium tank and good suchkas or su 85. You can go every doctrine you want right now, even windustry or defensive are great doctrines now.

maybe you didnt mention m10 crush, cost = spamability and survivability.
maybe you didnt mention buldozer DMG when you stand still and attack ground
maybe you didnt mention stug e cost (70 fuel and 200 mp) on top with great AI if you get 2 (better than proswind)
maybe you didnt mention flakpanzer shock value, you can get 2 before USA can get 1st sherman
maybe you didnt mention IS2 tiger and pershing value, they can win you gave even if you was behind
maybe you didnt mention croco wipe potential, ah poor paks
maybe you didnt mention valentine maphack
..........................................

and the list goes on

You are mixing 2 different things, efficiency and availability. If you tie up M10 to USF T3, you'll have somewhat to adjust its price and the unit will remain the same infantry crusher and spamable.
You can tie up the stug-e to Ostheer T3, same will happen because the problem isn't the fact it is a call-in but its efficiency. Is anyone complaining about the USF M8? Because that's also a call-in, but it comes late in CP for what it is and completely underwhelming for its cost.

My opinion is that call-in effect isn't the problem here, it is the unit efficiency.

Call-in are also there to bring more diversity in the gameplay, if I pick Armor doctrine, it is mostly to go T1+t2 and get some light tanks and then having M10 to counter mediums. If the M10 isn't a call-in anymore or tied to T3, this strat isn't available anymore thus removing one piece of gameplay diversity.

As players, we will all end up using doctrine without call-in. Because who wants to have a Tiger if he need to build T4 before? Who wants to have a pershing if he need to build T3 before, who wants to have a ISU/IS2 if he need to build T4 before.
At this stage of the reasoning, let's all factions be like OKW, Tiger/Pershing/IS2 are all unlocked when all tiers are built because why not?

And let's go further in the thinking, why should offmap arty, offmap airstrikes not tied to tiering? Why should we only considering call-ins as super asset? isn't stukabomb able to OS 90% of any field unit? Why this strong ability isn't only available after building Ostheer T4? Why my Perhsing/IS2 need tiering but airstrike potentially wiping half of my force not? Same goes for the B-4, Lefh and etc..

Call-ins have their place in the game, now if a call-in unit is too strong (and many of them are, M10, stug-e, flakpanzer,KV8 to quote 1 of each faction) let's put it to its right place, cost and CP wise.

i would actually love to see a buff in the WH clowncar + grens/pzgrens doctrin instead

30 fuel (what i remember) for the shittiest clowncar ingame is a big joke 4Head

Also, I think people are praising the OP-ness of the Stug E a bit too much. If the RNG is kind to you then it's good, otherwise it's a waste of fuel.

i think they should all work like the E8 or the T34/85.... maybe lower the CP requirement, but they are built at a building like everything else. it is a little ridiculous to totally win the infantry game vs SU for the guy to roll out a KV-8 and totally base rape you.