Quality of life changes for OKW

Here are some quality of life changes for OKW that I've been thinking about and would like to see in the game, in descending order of usefulness:

Smoke rounds for le.IG

This one has probably been discussed to death and I can't really find a good reason for OKW not having access to smoke apart from the Puma defensive smoke and perhaps the Obers smoke grenade.

Observation posts

These are basically caches that don't give any resource bonus but have the role of protecting cutoffs for, let's say, 100 mp.

Thorough Salvage as a separate ability from Salvage

This is an interesting one. The way I perceive commander abilities is that they either give you a choice to activate them, thus paying a certain cost to get a bonus, or give a passive bonus. So you either get something good for free or get the choice of getting something good for a cost, but the cost is never forced upon you.

Thorough Salvage is a bit different in that it's a passive ability that gives you extra munitions when salvaging wrecks but also forces you to accept the increased time to salvage. This poses a tactical problem because the downside is not always acceptable. Let's say I've chased the enemy away and forced him to abandon a couple of AT guns. I know I won't have time to escape with them before he comes back, or perhaps I just want to deny them to the enemy. With normal Salvage I can just melt them quickly for some fuel and run away before he comes back. Thorough Salvage prevents me from doing this, thus denying a valuable tactical move because it yields additional resources, which I may not even need.

Therefore, I propose that Thorough Salvage be made a separate ability, thus allowing us to decide whether we sacrifice Salvage speed for extra resources or not.

Thorough Salvage prevents me from doing this, thus denying a valuable tactical move because it yields additional resources, which I may not even need.

The first thing that came to my mind after reading this:

Wha' ?!

Why wouldn't you need munitions?

You are either muni starved or you are not doing things okay.

But seriously, some spare munitions are always good

The first thing that came to my mind after reading this:

Wha' ?!

Why wouldn't you need munitions?

You are either muni starved or you are not doing things okay.

But seriously, some spare munitions are always good

My point was that in this case I'm not salvaging to get resources, I'm salvaging to melt his AT guns, which is of much higher value.

I agree with slight exception to the Obs Post idea: maybe if it was something like a passive ability of OKW trucks when deployed or even a toggle for some OKW light vehicles? I wouldn't mind spending the fuel manpower and popcap of a light vehicle to make sure that VP or Fuel point can't be taken unless it is destroyed first. If anything that's not much of a faction buff because the ability is just territory secure and not accompanied with an increased resource income.
Of course, that's merely trying to keep OKW asymmetrical as possible, it can just be giving them caches like everyone else and adjust economy accordingly, re making them even more like Ostheer. Might as well finish going down the slippery slope.

On Thorough Salvage it's simply a matter of assinging G and placing it above regular salvage. Oddly enough, that's a simple solution to a unit that has more abilities than any OKW unit, and with some oddly assigned hotkeys as well: why in the remotest fuck would you assign the closest keys to the least accessible vetearncy unlocks in the faction? O to salvage instead of V or even ZXC? Hell even Q is an option. I can understand V because VOlks' STG upgrade, but Q and rearranging to more sensible keys?

@Danyek I believe the point was that salvage offers multiple tactical options, whilst Thorough Salvage removes some of them (and increasing risk) for the rather miniscule amount of more fuel and some munitions. Sure in a match with loads of wrecks you can really get a difference...if you can get your guys to salvage all of them. But like what OP says, part of the benefit involves depriving the enemy of uncrewed weapons or vehicles.

In any case I would just buff the ability so it has same salvage time. It's not exactly a lot everytime. It's argue that OKW is the weakest faction, and it's not like Salvage is the number one thing you'd want Sturmpioniers to do. Hell if you really want it, Sturms do it just as fast but Volks do it slower, you got the risk reward of expensive versus cheap unit.

I agree with slight exception to the Obs Post idea: maybe if it was something like a passive ability of OKW trucks when deployed or even a toggle for some OKW light vehicles?

Yes, something like the PE logistics car from COH1 but without the resource bonus would also work, as long as it can also fire at the enemy since it takes up pop cap.

1. Smoke rounds for LeIG. I don't think, that it is good idea. Each faction has absence of something in their arsenal, it's part of factions design. For Ostheer it's absence of reliable infantry, for USSR - absence of non-doc weapons for infantry. For OKW it is absence of smoke, and early also was absence of non-doc HMG. Anyway - adding smoke to OKW will be pretty bad idea, if we want to save factions design uniqe, more or less. OKW is already in few steps from turning into "Ostheer 2.0".

2. It is also strange idea. Cutoffs can be part of strategy of cutting forward OKW truckbases. And they MUST be effective, since OKW is ONLY faction, which gameplay and tiering progress based on forward basetrucks. Those basetrucks providing great benefits to OKW - it should be compensated with something. Absence of tools, which protecting you from cutoffs can be used as that compensation. So - no posts.

3. I don't like, that OKW salvaging can be used at team weapons. While I need to have ATG or Tank for to destroy enenmy/mine team weapons and prevent their stealing - OKW may just push the button and not only prevent it, but also get resourse bonus for that. It was more or less understandable, when OKW had resourse income penaltiy (would be nice to have it back), but now... It also looks cool, that OKW can salvage guns, while soviet doctrinal salvaging works only on cracked vehicles, and also costs 75 or 100 ammo for to equip each of your engineers with that. So, no improve for salvaging, please.

As result - everything is fine with OKW now, no need to change anything more. OKW is already lost almost all it's uniqness, no need to ruin it more with such changes.

1. Smoke rounds for LeIG. I don't think, that it is good idea. Each faction has absence of something in their arsenal, it's part of factions design. For Ostheer it's absence of reliable infantry, for USSR - absence of non-doc weapons for infantry. For OKW it is absence of smoke, and early also was absence of non-doc HMG. Anyway - adding smoke to OKW will be pretty bad idea, if we want to save factions design uniqe, more or less. OKW is already in few steps from turning into "Ostheer 2.0".

2. It is also strange idea. Cutoffs can be part of strategy of cutting forward OKW truckbases. And they MUST be effective, since OKW is ONLY faction, which gameplay and tiering progress based on forward basetrucks. Those basetrucks providing great benefits to OKW - it should be compensated with something. Absence of tools, which protecting you from cutoffs can be used as that compensation. So - no posts.

3. I don't like, that OKW salvaging can be used at team weapons. While I need to have ATG or Tank for to destroy enenmy/mine team weapons and prevent their stealing - OKW may just push the button and not only prevent it, but also get resourse bonus for that. It was more or less understandable, when OKW had resourse income penaltiy (would be nice to have it back), but now... It also looks cool, that OKW can salvage guns, while soviet doctrinal salvaging works only on cracked vehicles, and also costs 75 or 100 ammo for to equip each of your engineers with that. So, no improve for salvaging, please.

As result - everything is fine with OKW now, no need to change anything more. OKW is already lost almost all it's uniqness, no need to ruin it more with such changes.

1. I deliberately said le.IG's because you run a big risk going for them. Atm the Battlegroup HQ start is pretty weak and the le.IG is terrible at countering MG's. Adding smoke will give you a good reason to go for the Battlegroup HQ.

2. Not sure what the forward truck setup has to do with cutoffs. Yes, the Flak HQ can protect cutoffs, but you have no defence against early-mid game harassment. In fact, effective cutoff harassment can even prevent you from ever getting the Flak HQ, just like any other tech building, except every other faction can prevent it except for OKW. 100mp for a structure that does nothing otherwise seems reasonable to me.

3. As I said, this ability does not fit into the overall design of commander abilities, which is all about having the choice to make tradeoffs. All other commander abilities are seen as a plus to your gameplay, whereas Thorough Salvage is a gray area because it limits certain tactics that were viable with normal Salvage. Imagine the T-34/85 actually replacing the T-34/76 instead of being an additional ability. Would you be happy with the fact that you can no longer call the 76 as soon as you have the fuel because now you need to wait longer to call the 85?

1. I don't know. LeIG is enough powerful, I think. It has bigger than usual mortars range of fire, bigger than pack howie range of autofire (that's actually good, less microcontrol head ache), and it's in general very effective. I don't know, why people don't like it so much. LeIG is very much able to deal with mortars, HMG teams, emplacements... everything you don't like. Even Katyushas! (did it few times, was cool to look at opponent's butthurt ).

And T1 of OKW is fitted normaly. LeIG, non-doc Eye of Sauron and Flak HT - questionable unit, but still can be useful. Maybe should be cheaper. For example, I never build T2 - prefer to save that fuel for T3 and get normal vehicles, instead of shitty lights. In any case - LeIG is fine, T1 is fine. I would maybe make T1 reatreat point cost lesser to 200 MP, cos... paying 300 and then 100 more for medics - it all causes MP starvation, which is bad.

2. Cutoff harassment... You know, allies have not so much options for to do it. It's most easier for OKW to cutoff harass with fast Kubels, which can cap by default. So, it's not really problem for OKW at all...

3. Well, I would like to see that crazy, which will buy shitty T-34-76 and spend worthy fuel on that useless tincan, instead of w8 1-2 mins and getting normal and solid 85.

I said - I don't like, that salvaging can be used at team weapons, it looks a bit unreasonable for me, and it makes destryoing enemy weapons (which costs a lot of MP) not only easier, but also profitable for OKW. And you suggesting to make it easier for to destroy weapons with that ability, when you taking improved one with doctrine. I don't think, that it should be any easier for OKW, so that's why I say no to such improvement.

and it's in general very effective. I don't know, why people don't like it so much.

Maybe, just maybe, its because you are somewhere between rank #1000-#3000 After spending 2000hours into the game?

Jump back to quoted post8 Aug 2016, 17:12 PMMissCommissar

and it's in general very effective. I don't know, why people don't like it so much.

Maybe, just maybe, its because you are somewhere between rank #1000-#3000 After spending 2000hours into the game?

You want to say, that me - less skilled player - learnt how to use LeIG properly, but highlevel ner... players don't know how to do it? Such a compliment, thanks

Jump back to quoted post8 Aug 2016, 17:34 PMBananenheld

Jump back to quoted post8 Aug 2016, 17:12 PMMissCommissar

and it's in general very effective. I don't know, why people don't like it so much.

Maybe, just maybe, its because you are somewhere between rank #1000-#3000 After spending 2000hours into the game?

You want to say, that me - less skilled player - learnt how to use LeIG properly, but highlevel ner... players don't know how to do it? Such a compliment, thanks

...or you play versus lesser skilled people who dont know shit how to play this game..

3. Well, I would like to see that crazy, which will buy shitty T-34-76 and spend worthy fuel on that useless tincan, instead of w8 1-2 mins and getting normal and solid 85.

Sometimes waiting another 1-2 minutes is not an option if you need a tank ASAP. Similarly, waiting for Thorough Salvage close to the frontline is usually not an option.

Sometimes waiting another 1-2 minutes is not an option if you need a tank ASAP. Similarly, waiting for Thorough Salvage close to the frontline is usually not an option.

Don't use it then, if it's not an option. I still don't understand, why it should be easier for OKW? I see absolutely no reason, salvaging is already good ability itself. It should have at least some limits.

And in any case - T-34s example is bad. Units and abilities are different. What you suggest would be equial to adding to howitzers additional barrage ability, which has lesser salvos in barrage, but reloads faster. Such ability would make howitzers much more powerful, cos it would protect from miss-barages and would unreasonably increase howitzer's effectiveness.

Hope you will understand my example, specially through my shitty english

Don't use it then, if it's not an option.

Why should it not be an option? Everything else is an option.

And in any case - T-34s example is bad.

It's not. You get a clear choice: cheap + crap vs. expensive + good. Same as with Salvage vs. Thorough Salvage, except you don't get a choice there.

What you suggest would be equial to adding to howitzers additional barrage ability, which has lesser salvos in barrage, but reloads faster. Such ability would make howitzers much more powerful, cos it would protect from miss-barages and would unreasonably increase howitzer's effectiveness.

It's not equivalent, because in your example the ability being added is actually better than the existing one, whereas Thorough Salvage is only better than normal Salvage under specific conditions, while in others it's worthless, making it an alternative with a very punishing downside, which, contrary to how every other ability in the game works, is forced upon you.

Fix Raketen.

Make MG34 Tier 0.

Are my additions to your list.

although I do agree on the salvage, Scavenge doc is already super OP, making this change will only make the commander better.

The only quality of life change they need is sweeper and sherck at the same time on SP
All other are balance or bug fix (rakketen,mg34,isg,smoke,healing)

[delete]

All 3 ideas seem good to me.

1. Smoke rounds for LeIG. I don't think, that it is good idea. Each faction has absence of something in their arsenal, it's part of factions design.

You are missing the point entirely. 'asymmetrical balance' doesn't mean some factions need to be missing a key capability. Look at sov vs OH, or US vs Wehr in CoH1. Both are considered the most balanced and interesting matchups. Both factions are similar in terms of available units, yet there is sufficient difference in tech structure, unit abilities, relative strengths to keep things interesting.