Flanking german mg42 crews - Video

Press the stop button everytime you simply get out of the MG cone, you will kill the MG much faster.

Conscripts are rater weaker than USA rifles so flanking is much harder that's why you must use molotovs or flank with more squads

Marcus2389, stopping the squad mid movement is hard because of the input delay - you have no way of knowing where exactly they will stop. If I hit the halt button when all squad members are out of the cone, they will still keep running for a short while. It's a good point though.

I do know conscripts are relatively weak and I know flanking with more squads coupled with molotovs would yield better results.

I meant the topic to be a discussion if the current game pace/mechanic feels right for you regarding the given situation.

I'm not really looking for tips to deal with mgs - hence posting in the balance forums. =)

This is not flanking is a small skirmish and its not even funny, MG caught in bad position should be easily eliminated

Not to mention the small arms fire of the MG42 support team killing a man and taking the rest of the Conscript squad down to half health, basically rendering them combat ineffective until they retreat/heal.

I think a simple reduction of HP of all support weapons teams for both Ostheer and Soviet (except maybe the Pak) would do the trick. Although, this might make mortar insta-gibs happen more often. Unless it's possible balance a unit's resistance to different types of damage (small arms, artillery/explosives, fire) separately...then just increase damage take from small arms instead of lowering overall hp.

It is just bad design... why conscripts are running near enemy soldiers without shooting ? saying that it was bad micro because of to much running is stupid... if you near enemy you are shooting every time - maybe you are less accurate when you move or you move slower but your team should be shooting 100% of time in that video you can see that conscripts have MG before them and they just walking without shoot.
Another stupid thing is when you need whole team to be together to throw a grenade/molotov it feels like units are not responding to orders... because of one soldier that is behind...
Whole CoH 2 looks and feels like rushed beta game...

Personally, I've encountered similar scenarios as that video depicts and I think that is bad gameplay. If a support weapon like the MG42 or Maxim is caught off guard then it should be punished. The amount of micro needed to take that MG out is no where equivilant to the micro needed by the MG player since attack move is the only order needed to cause your MG to continuously face.

This is something we are investigating, but unfortunately it's a fairly complex issue with no easy solution. Our goal is to find the best solution, not the quickest one.

I will try to keep you all updated as we explore the problem further.

Edit: grammar

Personally, I've encountered similar scenarios as that video depicts and I think that is bad gameplay. If a support weapon like the MG42 or Maxim is caught off guard then it should be punished. The amount of micro needed to take that MG out is no where equivilant to the micro needed by the MG player since attack move is the only order needed to cause your MG to continuously face.

This is something we are investigating, but unfortunately it's a fairly complex issue with no easy solution. Our goal is to find the best solution, not the quickest one.

I will try to keep you all updated as we explore the problem further.

Edit: grammar

Can you explain how to use Attack-Move to force the MG to continually face? I'm intrigued.

Just tell your mg to attack that unit, and it will pickup and deploy by itself.

Personally, I've encountered similar scenarios as that video depicts and I think that is bad gameplay. If a support weapon like the MG42 or Maxim is caught off guard then it should be punished. The amount of micro needed to take that MG out is no where equivilant to the micro needed by the MG player since attack move is the only order needed to cause your MG to continuously face.

This is something we are investigating, but unfortunately it's a fairly complex issue with no easy solution. Our goal is to find the best solution, not the quickest one.

I will try to keep you all updated as we explore the problem further.

Edit: grammar

Thanks for the heads-up pqumsieh. I can only agree with your observations.

Just make infantry shoot backwards like in COH 1, problem solved.

Other than that, micro was horrible in that video.

Solution:
3 men squads for german (works for 7 years now)
4 men squads for russian with lower hp

Personally, I've encountered similar scenarios as that video depicts and I think that is bad gameplay. If a support weapon like the MG42 or Maxim is caught off guard then it should be punished. The amount of micro needed to take that MG out is no where equivilant to the micro needed by the MG player since attack move is the only order needed to cause your MG to continuously face.

This is something we are investigating, but unfortunately it's a fairly complex issue with no easy solution. Our goal is to find the best solution, not the quickest one.

I will try to keep you all updated as we explore the problem further.

Edit: grammar

Im glad you agree. This seemed balanced and intuitive enough in coh1. Couldnt the same mechanics be reused or are the systems to different?

Thanks for the acknowledgement pqumsieh. Stephenn has just about blown a gasket the last several days when his excellently executed flanks do very little.

Its the same situation for the German player if he catches a Maxim off guard.
Yes the Maxim has a smaller arc of fire, but it sets up and packs up faster, has more durability, and Grenadier squads lack molotovs or oo-rah.

Maxim is much easier to flank with two squads, than the MG42 is. Attacking a Maxim with one unit is a pretty bad idea in 99% of the case.

Rifle grenades are completely superior to Molotovs. Have much better range, harder to dodge (Mollies are the easiest thing to dodge in the entire game) you can shoot them over obstacles (i.e out of the MGs true sight) and they don't cost any fuel to tech. Wasting fuel on Molotovs delays AT nades/T70/SU85 which are more useful.

Nice to see devs acknowledging the problem.

Just make infantry shoot backwards like in COH 1, problem solved.

And this ^^ Is this possible to implement?

That video...it's like I have never seen that happen before!

Unexpected plot twist: When he tried the same on the other MG42, he gets screwed over by input delay and like 3 guys die instantly.

Personally, I've encountered similar scenarios as that video depicts and I think that is bad gameplay. If a support weapon like the MG42 or Maxim is caught off guard then it should be punished. The amount of micro needed to take that MG out is no where equivilant to the micro needed by the MG player since attack move is the only order needed to cause your MG to continuously face.

This is something we are investigating, but unfortunately it's a fairly complex issue with no easy solution. Our goal is to find the best solution, not the quickest one.

I will try to keep you all updated as we explore the problem further.

Edit: grammar

Hell yeah! Thank you!

Implement minimun range on MG/Maxim.

Will force them to displace when subjected to overruning infantry flanks.

Currently all they need to do is change facing even though the enemy is right ontop of them, and they will invariably still be effective.

With a minimum range they will have to keep continually moving until infantry stops pursuing, and will still keep MG/Maxim survival where it is vs indirect and vehicle fire.

And I repeat in pointing out that Maxims are even harder to force off, than MGs, due to better survival, faster resetup, and more effective DPS.

The MGs wider arc is irrelevant, because it can be compensated for on Maxim with micro of the faster de/setup.
Mgs better suppression rate is equitably matched by Maxims better effextive DPS.
There are so many people here who dont seem to understand stats and the DPS decreasing effect of suppression.
Suppressed units get a temporary defence bonus, which deteriorates over time. This means Maxim not only has a higher DPS overall, but furthermore does more dmg, for longer, to units it is firing at.

Except the MG42 PINS significantly faster, which is much more useful than than increased DPS considering a pinned unit is absolutely useless and just waiting to die if not retreated.

Claiming the wider arc, which can basically cover the entire screen, as irrelevant is exactly something you would say.