Old vCoH Player needs starting point.

Hey Guys,

I played vcoh for years and years and I am going to try and get into Coh2. Anyways, I only have access to the vanilla soviet and ostheer factions and not many commanders. Can someone just provide a basic strat that I can use so that I have a starting point (I have no fucking idea what I am doing atm haha).

Just need a basic build order so that I can start spamming matches without being totally blind.

Cheers.

Experiment with different strategies on your own - getting into stiff build orders will only teach you bad habits.

In my opinion SU and OST are not good for a beginner - I'd strongly suggest to buy one of the later factions. They're more intuitive, streamlined and easier to get into. Trying to learn the principles of CoH2 with vanilla factions will most likely lead to frustration.

Hey man! Check out Dane's channel for a lot of different games with a lot of different Soviet and Ostheer build orders. This one for example shows a quite nice t1 opening strat from the Ostheer player



The next one gives you a solid opening for the soviets and ost, they both play in this cast.



Just scroll through his channel, the guy is pretty annoying at times, but his content and the games he cast are good.

Well you can go try and watch a streamer and see how they play these factions but if you're completely new I would say go with Soviets first and forget Wehrmacht for now

My reasoning is with Soviets you
- Only need to learn to fight 2 factions not 3
- Its much less punishing
- Requires less micro

Well these are the experiences I got from most of my games with these factions which are few unfortunately

As for builds there is a number of opening builds and you will need to learn to tech different things first, build units etc based on the map and your opponents playstyle

But generally the most common build order for Soviets ( I have 86 1v1 as games OKW I fought them alot) is 3-4 Cons, Engineer into 2 Maxims into T70 ( Building an AT gun if need)

Inbetween these you would want to tech AT nades as your opponent starts getting his light vehicle, molotovs if theres alot of support weapons/buildings

Hopefully someone who plays these factions much more than me can give you an answer

But I still highly recommend that you watch a streamer so you know how one can play these factions, how abilities can be used etc.

Experiment with different strategies on your own - getting into stiff build orders will only teach you bad habits.

In my opinion SU and OST are not good for a beginner - I'd strongly suggest to buy one of the later factions. They're more streamlined, polished and easier to get into. Trying to learn the principles of CoH2 with vanilla factions will only lead to frustration.

Ok, thanks for the heads up.

I'll get into the American faction, but surely there is a standard early game build that I can use just whilst am becoming accustomed to the new game. (e.g. I know that in CoH, it was standard to go 2 engis -> 4 rifles -> motor pool -> armoured car, then diverge and adapt from there. Surely there is something similar?

In my opinion SU and OST are not good for a beginner - I'd strongly suggest to buy one of the later factions. They're more intuitive, streamlined and easier to get into. Trying to learn the principles of CoH2 with vanilla factions will most likely lead to frustration.

You have completely no idea what you are talking about

OP, build orders are completely obsolete when you know the mechanics of the game

Might as well get the full game with all DLCs since it's 75% off atm: http://store.steampowered.com/sub/84759/

You have completely no idea what you are talking about

Alright, nice. Care to elaborate?

Alright, nice. Care to elaborate?

Factions that are robbed of counters to anything in their stock army will never teach principles of coh series

Brits are better but they have the emplacements crap so they still lose to EFA

Factions that are robbed of counters to anything in their stock army will never teach principles of coh series

I don't even know what you mean by that.

I just thought that it would be a good idea to learn the general flow and pacing of battles while playing a more straightforward army, instead of focusing on the quirky teching mechanics of vanilla armies.

SU is a very specialized army and requires a certain amount of meta knowledge to be effective with them. It's just not going to happen in the case of a new player. OST is just plain underwhelming compared to the other armies in the game.

You might want to notice that I'm talking from a teamgame standpoint - none of them 1vs1 mlg twitch doritos shenanigans.

I don't even know what you mean by that.

I just thought that it would be a good idea to learn the general flow and pacing of battles while playing a more straightforward army, instead of focusing on the quirky teching mechanics of vanilla armies.

What I mean is the stock armies have counters to anything without the need of doctrines. When you don't have something that you need you don't learn how to counter the opponent properly. Take flamethrowers for example

Wait u just edited that post

SU is a very specialized army and requires a certain amount of meta knowledge to be effective with them. It's just not going to happen in the case of a new player. OST is just plain underwhelming compared to the other armies in the game.

You might want to notice that I'm talking from a teamgame standpoint - none of them 1vs1 mlg twitch doritos shenanigans.

Well I'm talking from a 1v1 mlg mountain dew perspective. About the Soviet part, I agree that it needs some knowledge, but it's not even the meta knowledge. Also if new player wants to be better he will l2p them anyway. I cant agree about the Wehr part

What I mean is the stock armies have counters to anything without the need of doctrines. When you don't have something that you need you don't learn how to counter the opponent properly. Take flamethrowers for example

Every army has its own distinct flavor. You can't just say there's one best way to counter something - every army has a way to counter everything, they just do it by different means.

And I'd say that SU is the most doctrine-reliant army. The lack of dedicated AT infantry and heavy armor in their stock army contributes to that problem/flavor a lot. A new player is likely to pick a sub-optimal doctrine and lock himself out of certain vital army assets.

Every army has its own distinct flavor. You can't just say there's one best way to counter something

But I do can say there are dedicated hardcounters that are the most effective ones

And I'd say that SU is the most doctrine-reliant army. The lack of dedicated AT infantry and heavy armor in their stock army contributes to that problem/flavor a lot.

Alright this came down to opinions and preferences. IMHO heavy tanks in stock armies are bullshit. AT infantry is somewhat different, you are right about Soviets' lack of it, but it's like vCoH's USA: sticky bombs in form of '43s, 57mm in form of Zis-3's and rangers and paras in form of guards and partisans (failed design imo). I've always considered handheld AT as an axis tool (vCoH Brits gtfo) until WFA+TBF came, and even now I want to consider it one. EFA still have the largest number of gameplay-health-friendly units that are not cancerous, and this is what I wanted to explain.

Ok enough of this

Alright this came down to opinions and preferences. IMHO heavy tanks in stock armies are bullshit. AT infantry is somewhat different, you are right about Soviets' lack of it, but it's like vCoH's USA: sticky bombs in form of '43s, 57mm in form of Zis-3's and rangers and paras in form of guards and partisans (failed design imo). I've always considered handheld AT as an axis tool (vCoH Brits gtfo) until WFA+TBF came, and even now I want to consider it one. EFA still have the largest number of gameplay-health-friendly units that are not cancerous, and this is what I wanted to explain.

Ok enough of this

It appears that you're huge a purist in terms of CoH. I can't blame you - started playing CoH2 when all the armies were already in place. Vanilla may or may not have been better - I don't know.

But times have changed, expansion packs have been released and the "new" armies have become a core part of the game. I'd say it would be a good idea for a new player to start with one of the less specialized armies and focus on learning the big picture first.

Once he's got the knowledge of how battles generally progress and when certain assets hit the battleground, he can branch out to the more complex aspects of the game, such as what hard counters what and what not.

Hey Guys,

I played vcoh for years and years and I am going to try and get into Coh2. Anyways, I only have access to the vanilla soviet and ostheer factions and not many commanders. Can someone just provide a basic strat that I can use so that I have a starting point (I have no fucking idea what I am doing atm haha).

Just need a basic build order so that I can start spamming matches without being totally blind.

Cheers.

Protip - go to state office section, in this part of forum mostly trolls await


Soviet meta is either 4 cons, or 3 cons + enginner (total 2) and maxim

into fast t70 then go double at gun or suckas and stall for is2 or fast t70 into t34/76 spam with su 85 support.



There are many other strats involving penals, sniper, guards etc etc and most of them are great too, but I think this can help you until you realise game a bit



And ostheer is often 3 gren mg into fast 222 into pak and into p4 or stall for tiger

or against brits or USA they often go ostruppen spam with sniper into 2x 222 or 222 and reinforce halftrack into p4 and oswind.


Once again here you try a lot more too, like also building puma, or go mg spam im panzergren spam into tiger

or go gren spam etc etc.

And always

#ADAPT

I think you will get into it, and if no, we have mentoring program that is strating right now

Dont start with wehrmacht unless u are a masochist.

jesus, can you guys actually give him some actual advice?


here's mine:

remember your old vcoh strats, you can use them with some adaptions.

i suggest for soviets 3xcon then engy who builds t2. get 1xmg. defend fuel, cutoff or vital house with mg. give flamers to engies for vet and repairs in lategame. when attacking, go with all cons and engies at once. they are less durable than vcoh rifles, but cheaper. you have to use them a bit more defensively. then tech t3, go t70 and harrass on the flanks. pios have no faust. also its good at killing retreating units

if you see scout car, use cover, get Zis and at nades
if you see pak against your t70 i suggest getting a shock troop

commander: shock rifle for kv8 and Is2 in lategame. don't tech t4 when going this


for ost, well it's a bit tricky. what did you do in vcoh.usually a good way is mg 3x gren mg/mortar, scout car, pak, ostwind/p4/pgrens/stugE. i personally try to play without sniper. stall and let him come. when seeing mediums, get stug, when seeing lot of inf, go p4 or ostwind

use the long range high DPS of your grens. attack with small groups of grens from cover to cover and use mg's to defend your cutoff and fuel. i think that's the most important thing

you have to consider that the setup time of mg42 is a whole second longer than in vcoh. so use it more defensively.

also don't forget to lay some tellermines on streets in midgame

commander: something with tiger or jäger panzer for the spotting scopes. i don't recommend elefant in 1v1 though.

jesus, can you guys actually give him some actual advice?


here's mine:

remember your old vcoh strats, you can use them with some adaptions.

i suggest for soviets 3xcon then engy who builds t2. get 1xmg. defend fuel, cutoff or vital house with mg. give flamers to engies for vet and repairs in lategame. when attacking, go with all cons and engies at once. they are less durable than vcoh rifles, but cheaper. you have to use them a bit more defensively. then tech t3, go t70 and harrass on the flanks. pios have no faust. also its good at killing retreating units

if you see scout car, use cover, get Zis and at nades
if you see pak against your t70 i suggest getting a shock troop

commander: shock rifle for kv8 and Is2 in lategame. don't tech t4 when going this


for ost, well it's a bit tricky. what did you do in vcoh.usually a good way is mg 3x gren mg/mortar, scout car, pak, ostwind/p4/pgrens/stugE. i personally try to play without sniper. stall and let him come. when seeing mediums, get stug, when seeing lot of inf, go p4 or ostwind

use the long range high DPS of your grens. attack with small groups of grens from cover to cover and use mg's to defend your cutoff and fuel. i think that's the most important thing

you have to consider that the setup time of mg42 is a whole second longer than in vcoh. so use it more defensively.

also don't forget to lay some tellermines on streets in midgame

commander: something with tiger or jäger panzer for the spotting scopes. i don't recommend elefant in 1v1 though.

Thanks a lot mate. For Wehr, I used to do Volk, Volk, Sniper, MG -> T2. I really liked Wehr, but I think I'll give them a miss for now whilst I learn. I take it they are a little tender atm judging by peoples comments.

I think I might give Americans a go as I just bought all the armies and I enjoyed playing Americans most in vCoH, plus I found a pretty good guide from DevM. In vCoH, I used to basically create a rifle death combo early on and win outright or rely on it getting me a good enough lead to transition into mid game. (Rifle x 3, Grenades, Rifle, BAR's, Flamers ect). DevM's guide covers the current builds and I'm going to give them a go now.

Ok, thanks for the heads up.

I'll get into the American faction, but surely there is a standard early game build that I can use just whilst am becoming accustomed to the new game. (e.g. I know that in CoH, it was standard to go 2 engis -> 4 rifles -> motor pool -> armoured car, then diverge and adapt from there. Surely there is something similar?

As USF it's 4 rifles>Captain tech>Stuart

Grenade tech and ambulance can be rushed by Captain(he can "supervise" unit production and research, making it happen faster) or researched earlier.

Against heavy support weapon play or Ostruppen (a doctrinal Wehr spam unit that can fight only in cover) substitute a rifle squad for a mortar.

Once you get grenade tech, try and use smoke to keep harassing territory and blocking LoS of high damage dealing units. (Like, the OKW Flak cannon is an example of a unit you would block Los of while Rifles cap territory it's protecting.)

If you are playing against a pure infantry spam strat, like 5 Volks or something, substitute Grenades for weapon rack research and start raising the bar.

So here my two cents:

Start with Soviets.

Try getting your starting engineers to build your T2 building right away, as you get your first conscript squad.

That T2 building is your safest bet, as a new player. It gives you MGs, mortars, and ATGs.

You might also consider getting up to 3 conscript squad. This allows you to flank better.

From here, it your choice as to whether you'd like to eventually get to T4, which will provide you with your "best" armor, or backtech to T1 for snipers, then go to T3, which has lesser armor.

Choices like this will be easier once you get more familiar with CoH2; something that might be easier if you just do some comp stomps on easy or standard. Something which will allow you to produce different units and actually play them, without being "rekt'd" by some jackass noob Axis player, who will promptly advise/ remind you of your own noob status.

The take-away point here is that I'm not partial to Axis players.

Also, the other stuff.