Change the hammer/anvil structure!

Guys, I came up with an idea (I dunno if this idea is new or old^^), but what would you say if a UKF Player needs to choose between hammer or anvil in the t1 Building already instead of in t2?

The idea with this hammer/anvil mechanics is great, but to be honest it´s only a small part of UKF as a result that it takes part in late game only. That´s kind of wasted potential, isn´t it?

If a Player chooses in early game already after building t1, it would be an effective usage of this potential, ALSO this would mean that Hammer strategy forces the player to use AECs and blocks the bofors(OR ALL EMPLACEMENTS?), Anvil forces him to use bofors.

And isn´t the bofors + comet combination "a bit" lame? This would avoid the - in my opinion very stupid- Sim City + comet spam "super strat"

The issue you are trying to address here is the Comet being way too cheap. That is not the way to do it. It would result in early heavy engies and the arty buff., while the main problem still persists.


It should have its cost increased and be limited to one on the field.

The issue you are trying to address here is the Comet being way too cheap. That is not the way to do it.


It should have its cost increased and be limited to one on the field.

Yah okay, but wouldn´t that nerf the comet a bit also?

For the current cost of bofors or aec unlock I assume?

Because any other way would completely destroy teching timing, making meds arrive way too late and therefore brits being stomped by medium armor or completely remove these two early game units from early game for no benefit.

The shitposter #1 with post marked as #2 can't tell the difference between comet and tiger, so he should be simply ignored, unless he also wants to limit panthers the same way.

Basically, you're not fixing anything, but creating a crapload of problems instead.

The shitposter #1 with post marked as #2 can't tell the difference between comet and tiger

Gotta love the fact that you don't have the balls to address me directly.


Rage harder and I might post your photo here eventually.

For the current cost of bofors or aec unlock I assume?

Because any other way would completely destroy teching timing, making meds arrive way too late and therefore brits being stomped by medium armor or completely remove these two early game units from early game for no benefit.

The shitposter #1 with post marked as #2 can't tell the difference between comet and tiger, so he should be simply ignored, unless he also wants to limit panthers the same way.

Basically, you're not fixing anything, but creating a crapload of problems instead.

You can imagine it like this: the bofors upgrade is being replaced with the anvil upgrade in the t1 building, and the same for the aec/Hammer.... but you still have acces to Bofors/ AEC then

And you still haven't addressed the tech cost and timing problem you've created, unless the anvil/hammer at T1 will be 150/15, which then in turn create a timing problem of comet and churchill.

As I've said, you're creating a plethora of problems without solving anything.

And you still haven't addressed the tech cost and timing problem you've created, unless the anvil/hammer at T1 will be 150/15, which then in turn create a timing problem of comet and churchill.

As I've said, you're creating a plethora of problems without solving anything.

With timing problem you mean those units would be produced too early or what?? and what do you mean with medium vehicles come too late? These changes would´nt delay anything

With timing problem you mean those units would be produced too early or what??

It slow downs brits teching as a whole.

What if I want to go AEC + Anvil?

If you believe that there are two upgrades that overperform with relation to their counterparts (e.g., Bofors over AEC and Hammer over Anvil), why not adjust the strength of those mutually-exclusive upgrades to bring them closer together?

It seems that you are making the (incorrect) assumption that Anvil is some sort of punishment that should be enacted on the Bofors-doers. Instead of limiting the tactical options for everyone, why not nerf Bofors pricing/replaceability instead?

UKF already has a very limited unit roster, if you choose to forego emplacements.

With timing problem you mean those units would be produced too early or what?? and what do you mean with medium vehicles come too late? These changes would´nt delay anything

If you keep current T1 unlock costs, comet and churchill arrive too quickly, creating situations of old OKW, where we had 12 min T34 vs 14 min panther, except now it would be P4 vs comet.

If you keep current anvil/hammer costs, there is NO point to ever get the upgrade, because it would leave you extremely far behind the tech to the point where early med tank would obliterate you and neither, bofors or aec would be even considered an optimal choice, removing both from the game and destroying brits teching as a whole.

Basically, whatever you do-it does not work as it either makes brits extremely OP or extremely UP.

If you keep current T1 unlock costs, comet and churchill arrive too quickly, creating situations of old OKW, where we had 12 min T34 vs 14 min panther, except now it would be P4 vs comet.

If you keep current anvil/hammer costs, there is NO point to ever get the upgrade, because it would leave you extremely far behind the tech to the point where early med tank would obliterate you and neither, bofors or aec would be even considered an optimal choice, removing both from the game and destroying brits teching as a whole.

Basically, whatever you do-it does not work as it either makes brits extremely OP or extremely UP.

But wouldn´t the problem be solved if you just add "unlock comet/churchill" upgrade for t2? and based on if you have chosen anvil or hammer, it would be either unlock comet or unlock churchill" for maybe ~150 MP, 50 fuel

My main idea is that your early game choice for either anvil or hammer is bound to your late game-play

And avoid things like: "Ok, I actually managed to build my sim city, now I can spam comets and stomp everything"

This leads to another thing... I know this idea is risky and a bit light headed, but what if all emplacements would be blocked for Hammer queue then?

And avoid things like: "Ok, I actually managed to build my sim city, now I can spam comets and stomp everything"

This leads to another thing... I know this idea is risky and a bit light headed, but what if all emplacements would be blocked for Hammer queue then?

That scenario implies that there are issues with the Comet and/or emplacements (I'd say emplacements) that make it an overpowering strategy. Instead of changing UKF teching and having to re-balance teching costs, it would be better simply to adjust the Comet or emplacements.

Completely removing emplacements is also not a good idea, since UKF lacks any indirect fire without the Mortar Pit. I'd prefer to slightly nerf Bofors, add a mobile mortar to T2, and make the Mortar Pit allow garrisoned mortars to work like artillery emplacements (like weaker ML20s). This would remove the Mortar Pit/Bofors no-micro synergy and make UKF less reliant on emplacements.

If you'd like to test a mod with that suggestion, I've made one here.

If you'd like to learn how to mod (good for making balance suggestions and finding unit stats), there's a tutorial here.

I believe I even posted this in the UKF Alpha forums about a while back but nobody paid attention.

My wet dream was to have a sort of Eastern Front Ostheer's gameplay mechanic of switching between Offense and Defense, in the case of the Brits, more static and more mobile gameplay, ever since the Alpha.

Basically my idea was to have Anvil and Hammer be 2 swichable options in the Brit HQ and lock all mobile units in Hammer while locking all emplacements and the Churchill in Anvil, so if you go Anvil you'd get access to the Bofors, 17 pounder emplacement, upgraded trenches (I would just change the model and allow it to garrison mortars, for example) and the mortar pit which like Svanh said would be turned into a defensive position and you would have access to a mobile 3-inch mortar team by default, plus the Churchill and I was hoping that Anvil would also unlock a hull down ability for British tanks but sadly I think lack of animations are preventing that from happening.

While if you choose Hammer you'd get the Universal Carrier, AEC Mk III Armored Car, Comet and Firefly as well as some other offensive ability like the vehicle tracking for example or something.

As for the standard toolset you'd still have the Infantry Section, Vickers, 3-inch mortar team like I already mentioned, Sappers, 6 pounder AT gun, Sniper (altho he would have a Scoped Lee-Enfield by default and be able to upgrade to a boys .55 AT rifle like it was originally intended to be) and Cromwell without the need to invest resources into specializing into either defense or offense, you'd just still get sandbags and trenches by default to hold ground but not really dig in as effectively as if you were to go Anvil or take ground as effectively as you would if you went Hammer.

But yeah, you'd be able to switch at any time but of course would require to invest resources and time again, so researching would need 30 seconds to complete while the cooldown would be like 60 or so before you can switch again, giving the ability to the British Army to adapt to the Battlefield situation instead of locking units and abilities behind senseless side-tech. The only choice that you make that should be locked in is the Commander you choose, not side tech if you ask me, the trade offs are just not worth it.

And yeah sorry for the wall of text but I had to rewrite it and I'm in a bit of a hurry.

why would it make sense limiting the options for the brit player from the very start? why cant bofors + comets be a thing? by adding this change you would waste potential even further, as it would restrict the player, as well as making it predictable and bland

you cant seriously support that idea, just because you dont like certain strategies to play against

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smsv9N5qOnw

Guys look at this, especially 1:00-1:30.... Quinn Duffy is explaining the Hammer/Anvil strat shortly, but if as it was a big part of UKF (which is not )Also, he is giving an allusion like Anvil was meant for defensive/camping gameplay and Hammer for agressive pushs.. which is not correct cuz both queues allow both camping or agressive gameplay... target failed

"We want to make player´s decisions valuable"
"We wanted to make the difference between attack and defence"

This is exactly whats missing with the current UKF

"We want to make player´s decisions valuable"
"We wanted to make the difference between attack and defence"

This is exactly whats missing with the current UKF

It's not the structure of Hammer/Anvil that reduces player choice but the actual units and abilities in them. Bofors into Comet is the easier strategy for UKF and scales better with player numbers.

The first choice gives either the AEC or Bofors and is decided by whether you want to be mobile or camp but the Bofors is arguably better than the AEC (especially for new players) simply because it requires significantly less micro while being more potent and cheaper. Making Hammer/Anvil a choice here requires some cost and/or performance nerfs to the Bofors and a rework of the AEC's Tread Shot.

Part of the problem with the second choice is that most of the Anvil abilities are under-powered or broken. The Early Warning point sight doesn't work, Airburst Shells are chained to the already lacklustre Coordinated Fire, and the Churchill is a worse Cromwell for the cost. Heavy Engineers are really the only reason to tech Anvil and that's because they're completely OP (60 munition LMG, improved repair speed and doubled durability against small arms for 70 munitions). Compare this to Hammer, where the only bad ability is the Gammon Bomb (which is simply overpriced). Emergency War Speed and the Comet are extremely good and Vehicle Tracking is also fairly useful (especially with Fireflies).

To make the second Hammer/Anvil choice an actual choice, Early Warning needs to work (+10 sight on owned points sounds good), Coordinated Fire needs a range increase from 20/25 (30/35 in the upcoming patch) to 40/45, and the Churchill needs to be reworked (better armour, less health, lower pop cost). Heavy Engineers will also probably need a change (cost to 40/50 munitions, LMG removed, repair bonus reduced/removed).