Rebalancing the Stuka Dive Bomb

the only thing i'd like changed in this ability is that it shouldn't be allowed in HQ sectors (like most arty).

A fitting punishment for a blob retreat but too harsh a punishment.

It's true that you can use that ability to wipe a retreating blob, and blobbing should be punishable.

However, you can also target this ability to wipe your opponent's engineers when they are engaged in repairing. As far as I know, power-repairing (i.e., using multiple engineer squads for the job) is not a punishable punishment.

In fact, the very design of this ability punishes any attempts at multitasking:
- The warning time is insufficient for you to jump to other units AND determine whether they are about to be shelled AND relocate them safely in time

Thus, the best (and only way) to be safe against the Stuka Dive Bomb ability is to actually blob (there is only one location you need to be aware of).

Let's go and make Ostheer more useless kappa.

I'm still not sure, if your whole thread is a troll or not tbh

A) You need view to use it

B) The sound is soo loud, so you will find it allways.

C) Yes Ambulance + Major from USA die vs it or paks if you not react fast. But thats all^^. Rest survive
D) It cost some muni and the cooldown is fine.

Yeah there was a huge ninja buff to it for no reason. I'm not sure why more poeple aren't pissed about this. It definitely wasn't UP before that.

Also look at that. That's stronger then the B-4 and the railway arty for a cheap call-in with no smoke. That's ridiculous. Anyone defending this has no sense of balance.

I would say leave stuka as it is, but buff other stuff, especially buildable Howtizers, and especially self-propeled ones like Priest and Sexton, cause now i fear (and use) Pack Howie more than real howies with greater effect, and it aint normal. Artilery is joke in this game, itš either to week or comes too late, actually i loved British op abilieties when they were op, at start, they made me fear them, made me take actions,l now when i see 350 muni bomber run, i just laugh my arse off and move everything away with no damage (just repair some trucks after).

As i see this ability can be problem in games with more than 3v3, but from my experience i go to em when i want to see a real clusterfuck, some war action ,and i basicly get it so whats to whine about. AND do u 3v3 (4v4) players want to say me that u go to play these game modes for strategy, or u go to play them just for fun (action/death/clusterfuck)? I bet its 2nd answer, then get it that fun is relative - its botth fun to blow blob up with stuka, and with calliOPe alike.

In competitive levels, where u need to think more, than just spam shit - i mean 1v1 or, to less extent 2v2, stuka bomb isnt much problem.

whether the stuka dive bomb gets nerfed or not wont really effect ostheers performance lol.

Op made very good and reasonable points and the ability is still very useful and kills models just does not wipe squads which is the direction this game should go. Its not a complete nerf as the radius is also increased.

The one thing i would like to add to OP's post is no offmap such as the stuka should be able to drop in the base sector.

I agree with OP - while I think this ability is fine in 1v1's and 2v2's (albeit a bit strong), the ability becomes ridiculous if used by an experienced team, especially with the CAS commander who can basically call in this ability every 120 seconds (which is why I assume SturmPanther is okay with this ability, because of the advantage it gives experienced teams).

Lets say we're dealing with an experienced team who are able to defend a munitions point for the air drop. The CAS commander player can call in the ammo drop every two minutes and gets either 150 munitions or 50 fuel. This means they can drop one dive bomb every two minutes. If they save up ammo for the entire game and the experienced players can hold off the enemy due to the manpower deficiency of the Ost player, the Ost player can just fully focus on using their recon + dive bomb. A good CAS player (with caches) can have 1000 munitions saved up by the time the dive bombs arrive.

Yes, you can dodge the ability. But when there's three players in the game and they have to dodge it so very often, it becomes extremely tiresome. Not to mention that there's more than likely a unit you may forget to move. Or heck, you may not get enough forewarning if combined with the special operations artillery flares.

Not to mention that the Stuka Dive bomb can become undodgeable: wait for the enemy to retreat a veterancy 3 squad, get recon on the base, and drop it right before the units arrive. Impossible to dodge. It feels good (I've done it myself), but God is it stupid.

What I'd like to see:
1) Increase the cost to 250 munitions to be in line with other offmaps (it has higher wipe potential than most of them, yet is extremely cheap relatively speaking).
2) Do not let players drop it in the base sector (and with that, also remove the ability to drop other offmaps such as Soviet incendiary strikes on bases).
3) Either add warning flares, or reduce the AOE somewhat. If this does happen, the cost can probably stay the same.

Ironically I uploaded a replay which clearly shows how cheesy this ability is when used well in conjunction with a team a few days ago:

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  VS

  Draconis ♥ Sunset-Senpai ♥ cmooser

  Melchett MarkvA Praetorian

  Lategame Cheese - 3v3

  by: MarkvA map: Port of Hamburg

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Add flares to this ability and revert the ninja buff. Or all axis fanboy who against the OP must agree all off map abilities should have no flare but sound only to remain consistency, am I right?

I find it's the only really useful offmap artillery ostheer has... that and incendiary Arty. All the other ones are just so meh.

At OP:
The AOE you are proposing is absolutely tiny. It takes a super long time to land and often the noise is more noticeable than red flares. The only time it's truly effective is when they are pro blobbing or greatly bunched up and even then they can always move their units.

If it's not a problem in 1v1s why do you want it changed? I thought you didn't care about team games?

Insta gibbing stationary targets is the only thing I think should be adjusted. Your suggestion doesn't even do that.

I usually agree with your posts Mr Smith but I disagree with this one. Your proposed nerf is too much.

i wouldnt say it needs a rebalance, perse, its actually a balanced ability, it simply catches people offguard if used right.

but its just 'broken' since it should work like any other normal explosive weapon and not have some ~broken~ kill crit that zaps anything on feet that so much as touches it in such a huge AOE.

I think thats what smith is saying, and the main point of his argument.

To those saying, "move" You can move when you hear the land mattress too, doesnt mean its not stupid when it does manage to hit you.

Yes its a nonfactor in smaller modes.. but in bigger modes it very well is an issue. And if your sound bugs out, and it doesnt play, which sometimes happens to me with this ability, its also an issue. In all modes.

IMO, "killall" crits on any weapon with any sort AOE is dumb to me, but on a weapon with such a massive AOE.... its senseless. dont care if its a divebomb or a V2. It just needs real, literal Aoe values....i think thats what smith is saying as well. The 'killallcrit' should remain but only in a much smaller radius(which is very easily doable in the Aoe section of the tools..)

I would also rather it not be able to be dropped in bases, and instead be used against emplacements, howies, and static locations/buildings like its supposed to be, not as a cheesy base wipe weapon(especially in bigger modes )

and maybe have a drop in its cost/cooldown time to compensate.

Not sure if the "sturmtiger AOE is insta gib anything" like this as well, dont feel like looking it up. but if it is, then it needs to be adjusted slightly too.

wouldnt say those are nerfs, its just making the all game mechanics function consistently..

and Smith your nerf would need adjusting, but its on the right track.

Your proposed nerf is too much.

How is that too much? Is Ostheer losing any vital strengths through this?

How is that too much? Is Ostheer losing any vital strengths through this?

It renders ability useless, and with so - makes commanders like close air support, storm and air support useless, and thus it makes window for strategic diversity smaller. And yes nerfing this, would nerf last usefull offmap ability Ostheer has, and im making this comment as a player who play OST far less than other 4 factions.

What's not right about stukat is the fact that most likely you will hear the sound around 6-7sec before landing and it's way to short to move crew weapons.

I wonder why it was ninja buffed in the first place.

Second thing, railway should be most devastating, not dive bomb.

How is that too much? Is Ostheer losing any vital strengths through this?

That's like saying nerf IL2 because soviets won't be losing any vital strengths by this.

Really empty argument there.

I'm ok with change the kill crits to AOE dmg but if what I'm looking at in his proposed change is what he thinks it should be, that's pathetic. The dude would have to be afk to be hit by that AOE.

What cookiez said.

So what you guys are saying about the stuka dive bomb is that if person A was standing next to person B in the game and the dive bomb hit the ground with that person just in its aoe, person B would be obliterated while person A stay unscathed? Lol.

I say increase its cost to 200muni and make a proper aoe damage area like op has said (mayby not to the extent as proposed).

P.s the IL2 fab bomb run the soviets have cost 200 muni, has flairs and can be (although rare) shot down. It also drops its payload in a single direction.

+1 Stuka needs changes for AOE as well as the removal of stuka base bomb (along with Il2 ect.)


Edit: another issue I have is the sound doesn't always play. Imagine being a def gamer, how the hell do you tell someone the bomb is coming. I find the ability is inconsistent and needs looked at. AOE should come down and provide a more consistent damage, applying damage to the models and killing units in direct blast would be good. On the other hand, the stuff we have now were we wipe out EVERYTHING in its AOE and there is no fall off damage simply isn't fair for the price you pay with the deployment it gets.

no stuka dive bomb into the base sector. Otherwise its fine. Never had a problem with stuka

Am I the only one who doesn't struggle vs this? If I hear it I can almost pinpoint it accurately and move at the same time. - Hell ask any of the other Angry Bears when we are against it I can ping on almost the exact spot they are gonna get hit.

I agree with the removal of it being able to hit HQ zone.

Am I the only one who doesn't struggle vs this? If I hear it I can almost pinpoint it accurately and move at the same time.

Players who refuse to dislocate their blobs get punished by potent off map arty, the stuka is no exception here.


"but itsh axsis ability" does not justify a nerf here.



Secondly nobody is going to build hundreds of inf units, kettle them inside a 10 meters radius and pretend to be deaf and ignore the siren which is the loudest sound effect in the whole game and lose his beloved blob. That image is trying to exaggerate the effectiveness of this ability but in actual game scenarios it does not happen.


Use all of your senses when playing the game, that siren is executed for a reason. Listen to it and move the blob of doom.

seriously?? were complaining about the stuka bomb now? no one ever uses anyway?

That's like saying nerf IL2 because soviets won't be losing any vital strengths by this.

The dude would have to be afk to be hit by that AOE.

You know what's funny? Someone has to be afk to be hit by an IL-2 bomb strike, yet it exists and is significantly more expensive while being less effective.

Offmaps shouldn't be something to be thrown around the american way. There are countless examples of how offmaps become unspammable while being powerful and the Stuka bomb is literally the only ability in this game which is way too overpowered for its cost.

What I find most funny about stuka dive bomb is that its supposedly a 50k bomb and yet it has more AOE than a 700kg railway shell. Also in comparison the IL-2 bomb strike which drops 4 50kg bombs has no where near the same AOE... Relic logic right there.

They could at least change the description to something more fitting like a 150kg bomb which stukas also used.

Miragefla changes to the ability seem decent but it could use cost reduction if its going to be nerfed that much.