Panzer commander vs Tank commander

However, there's no denying that UKF Tank Commander & Emergency Warspeed are a bit over-the-top.

Emergency Warspeed should function like the Ostheer version:
- Lighter tanks get better version of the ability than heavier tanks
- This is why the OST Panther seems balanced, whereas the OKW Panther turns into a race-car (OKW Combat Blitz behaves like an Emergency Warspeed on steroids)
- I have no opinion about the availability (small munition cost? require the engineers to repair longer to activate?)

Regarding Tank Commander, the bonuses are also too much. The cost is so incredibly tiny too, that it makes the upgrade a no-brainer.
- Veterancy-gain should probably gtfo
- Detection radius should be moved to the AEC. The UC is a terrible sniper hunter. This doesn't mean that the Cromwell fleet should detect invisible units though. Better give it to a dedicated unit.
- The ability should retain its Accuracy bonus (so that it remains reasonable to upgrade all tanks (including Fireflies)
- The LOS bonus is questionably high, and could go down. Currently it gives Cromwells/Comets the same sight-range as Volksgrenadiers (not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing)

Now, regarding the fact that Brit tanks have no pintle MG. Think about it. Does pintle MG help USF, when:
- Panzerschreck range equals MG range? (do you want to spend all your time repairing?)
- We have Pak-walls

Reducing the benefits of a no-brainer upgrade until it fits the cost doesn't stop it from being a no-brainer upgrade. I'd suggest keeping the current sight and accuracy bonuses while increasing the cost to 40/45 munitions. This makes upgrading an actual choice while keeping the incentive to upgrade a Firefly, which doesn't have trouble hitting tanks at any range (0.08/0.07/0.05 N/M/F accuracy).

Losing the detection and veterancy bonuses is for the best; detection diluted unit roles and the veterancy bonus simply isn't needed by UKF tanks (with the possible exception of the Comet).

Your suggestions for Emergency Warspeed seem reasonable.

ukf have mortar pits, bofor barage, 2 free howies witch with some commanders counter all non veichle based arty, and can even shoot in the FOW and be buffed buy the anvil specialization. i would take this over the pwerfer or stuka any day.

tell me would you rather have the mg or the buffs that the tank commader gives? i think all of us would pick the tank commander.

thing is that ukf does everything other armies do but it does it better.

double brens, double pitas, best healing in the game, 5 man upgrade, repair unit high dps for low cost witch can take two brens and an lmg with anvil, can destroy cover, a sinper that can couter the 222, an at gun that has more accuracy then other at guns, has fast and cheap teching, best medium tank in the game for its price, best tank destroyer (+tulips), best repairs in game, a pak 43 copy with brace witch can pen world objects with its special shot and spot for its self with units inside or when near the retreat point, a retreat point where you can take wepons and upgrade it to a repair station with a commnader and it can drop arty, best offmaps in the game etc.. the list goes on and on. this shows that if brits lack one thing like a snare on the main inf they make it up with 3 more things.

the point is these two abilites are the same but one is soooooo muche better that its op while the other is usless.

"ukf does everything other armies do but it does it better" is perhaps not the most considered opinion on the faction. While you have identified several balance issues with UKF (Sappers, Cromwell price, Bofors barrage, Heavy Engineers, PIATs), most of your list is composed of non-issues (Forward Assembly, 5-man upgrade, 6-Pounder accuracy bonus against light vehicles, cheap tech, dual-Brens) or a misunderstanding of unit stats or the faction (Firefly, Sniper, 17-Pounder, 'free' 25-Pounders).

"ukf does everything other armies do but it does it better" is perhaps not the most considered opinion on the faction. While you have identified several balance issues with UKF (Sappers, Cromwell price, Bofors barrage, Heavy Engineers, PIATs), most of your list is composed of non-issues (Forward Assembly, 5-man upgrade, 6-Pounder accuracy bonus against light vehicles, cheap tech, dual-Brens) or a misunderstanding of unit stats or the faction (Firefly, Sniper, 17-Pounder, 'free' 25-Pounders).

i didnt said that those thing are issues, foward retreat points should be removed form the game and replaced with a mobile reinforce unit like the ht, since the ukf has like now vet abillity its fine for it to keep a bit more accuracy, okw has cheap tech as well, dual brens are a problem only on sappers.

the firefly is fine for it self but with tupils its op, sinper is fine since the brits have nos snare on main line inf, 17 pounder is a big big bounus that makes up for a lot of things,

- This is why the OST Panther seems balanced, whereas the OKW Panther turns into a race-car (OKW Combat Blitz behaves like an Emergency Warspeed on steroids)

I lol'd, never understood that honestly, maybe OKW veterans tuned their engines NFS style haha, it's almost comical seeing a panther drifting around the map at 120 kmh.

OKW tank commander manages to be a completely useless ability on its own, there is no need to compare it to the British tank commander.

If the OKW ability was on something other than Elite Armour, I'd say don't bother. However the commander, while not bad, will not suddenly shift the meta enormously if it got another good ability.

I say make the LOS bonus larger, add a minor accuracy aura to surrounding infantry (say 6% in radius 20, nonstackable), and make the artillery shells drop faster.

Unrelated, I also believe the British tank commander should cost 60 ammo. Like the grenadier LMG, which is also a straight upgrade, but it will make you think twice before upgrading.

god forbid allies have something axis doesn't

OKW tank commander sucks, but thats not a reason to nerf UK stuff no one is complaining about

It's not that allies have something axis don't... It's that they each have the same thing but one is WAY better as well as being non doctrinal for no apparent reason. You don't have to necessarily nerf UKF commander, it's nice to have asymmetrical factions and all, just bring the okw one in line with the UKF one. I'm pretty sure you only get one OKW commander at a time so it's not even that big of a deal.

Brit commander needs to be looked at, it is a no question upgrade, which means it is over performing for cost.

OKW commander makes no sense. It gives up good AI to grant a very small LoS bonus, and a near useless arty strike. Instead maybe it should function like the Brit commander reducing vet requirements slightly while retaining LoS bonuses? It clearly needs to be adjusted to be an option, as it stands it is just a straight downgrade to the MG.

The problem lies with the whole OKW Elite Armor doctrine imo.

The tank Commanders artillery should come down faster. Never ever have I seen this not being dodged.

The HEAT shells should be a passive ability with a smaller effect similar to the Coh1 AP shells from the tank hunter doctrine.

The boost relais ability is absolutely niche. And crew repairs are a worse equivalent to the Soviet crew repairs. I lack ideas here though.

I just go for it because of the Trolltiger.

^Heat shells are fine. If you want them passive, remove damage modifier and just leave the pen buff.

Improve OKW panzer commander and increase cost of UKF tank commander.

The problem lies with the whole OKW Elite Armor doctrine imo.

The tank Commanders artillery should come down faster. Never ever have I seen this not being dodged.

The HEAT shells should be a passive ability with a smaller effect similar to the Coh1 AP shells from the tank hunter doctrine.

And crew repairs are a worse equivalent to the Soviet crew repairs. I lack ideas here though.

I just go for it because of the Trolltiger.

+1 these are good ideas, I also go for the elite armor doctrine solely for the armor tracking and the Sturmtiger.

No need to nerf the British ability.

But the panzer commander is garbage
-arty takes way tooo long to come down
-LOS difference is next to none

I propose,
-To buff the LOS to a noticeable difference
-reduce incoming arty by half. Any moron not paying attention has all day to figure out something is about to come then decide to do something about it

To upgrade Panze-Kommandant means you can't have MG, a big minus in front.

I would rather Elite Panzer Doc has only 4 abilities than to actually use it... It's plain rubbish.

Same could be said to 2cm Flak emplacement, UKF forward observation post (well not that bad but still..) and Hetzer

yep. brit tank commander is the no brainer of the no brainer

However, there's no denying that UKF Tank Commander & Emergency Warspeed are a bit over-the-top.
Emergency Warspeed should function like the Ostheer version:
- Lighter tanks get better version of the ability than heavier tanks
- This is why the OST Panther seems balanced, whereas the OKW Panther turns into a race-car (OKW Combat Blitz behaves like an Emergency Warspeed on steroids)
- I have no opinion about the availability (small munition cost? require the engineers to repair longer to activate?)

Combat Blitz is considered on steroids, however it is only a few seconds duration.
War speed, just means that - tanks move at race-car speeds - there is no acc/reload boosts.

Combat Blitz is considered on steroids, however it is only a few seconds duration.
War speed, just means that - tanks move at race-car speeds - there is no acc/reload boosts.

You need to rephrase your sentence. I can't figure out what you are trying to say.

Btw:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/52852/the-coh2-ability-guide

You need to rephrase your sentence. I can't figure out what you are trying to say.

Btw:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/52852/the-coh2-ability-guide

This was exactly my point:
War Speed:
25% received accuracy, +35% speed, +60% acceleration.

Blitz:
-25% received accuracy, +35% speed, +60% acceleration.(*-25% received accuracy, +15% speed, +30% acceleration for Tiger and Panther tanks ONLY)

One is just fast "GTFO of here now" button, the other is used in assault moments.