Tiger Ace not viable

Go check my trending video. If you still believe its armour should be buffed after that then well, it only further reinforces my suspicions about you.

There was a Video of a sherman tank which survived 20+ rounds of panzer 4s at literally 1hp @ trending quite some time ago. There was a shoot bounced/missed count. Is sherman amour now OP?

Just sayin'

Freak RNG means...nothing. RNG is a capricious bitch and therefore seemingly ludicrous instances of survival (or death) do indeed happen against all statistical probability, thats life. However, what matters is the statistical average, and Tiger has 300 front armour compared to 290 on the Pershing and 375 on the IS-2.

my suggested changes to it are

1 : feul cost addition. => 800 mp and 260 feul

2 : 50 sight nerfed to 35 like a normal tiger.

3 : health reduced from 1280 to 1040

4 : feul income cut by 50% instead of 90%

5 : no manpower income penalites

If the Tiger Ace wasn't viable, then now its definitely not viable

There was a Video of a sherman tank which survived 20+ rounds of panzer 4s at literally 1hp @ trending quite some time ago. There was a shoot bounced/missed count. Is sherman amour now OP?

Just sayin'

Was that pre death crit fix or post?

Freak RNG means...nothing. RNG is a capricious bitch and therefore seemingly ludicrous instances of survival (or death) do indeed happen against all statistical probability, thats life. However, what matters is the statistical average, and Tiger has 300 front armour compared to 290 on the Pershing and 375 on the IS-2.

Since your too lazy to do it your self https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73DE4PhXUaI

So, can you confirm that you agree with me that the armour doesn't need changing or are you disagreeing with me and saying it needs buffs? If the armour needs buff please provide some actual evidence to back this up (saying a faction makes you cry is not a valid reason fyi).

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Was that pre death crit fix or post?




Since your too lazy to do it your self https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73DE4PhXUaI

So, can you confirm that you agree with me that the armour doesn't need changing or are you disagreeing with me and saying it needs buffs? If the armour needs buff please provide some actual evidence to back this up (saying a faction makes you cry is not a valid reason fyi).

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Is this really so hard to decipher? Let me reiterate: As nondoctrinal heavy tanks go, the Tiger is a generally situational unit. The Pershing and IS-2 generally aren't, and ergo are to be considered the better options within the framework of their respective factions. To restore parity one could either slightly buff the Tiger or slightly nerf the others. Whether this is to be done via armour or any other variable (sight range, ROF, splash, etc) is up for discussion.

And why lazy? How exactly am I supposed to find a random trending video of yours? Mind you, take the video as an example. Just how large are the chances for 300 armour to bounce a gazillion what, 150-200 pen shots? Marginal, its freak RNG par excellence and quite meaningless.

Also you know what, I take back the fanboy accusation, but the whole "suspicion" sthick is not conducive to productive discourse either. Peace.

Tiget Ace is in general bad ability and bad call-in. At least for 1v1. Because if you are head to head with your enemy, Tiger ace could really mean IWIN ability for you.

If Ost player is ahead, TA could deny any comeback if played right.

If ost have disadvantage then TA is quite balanced. But again TA is huge problem in 1v1 if you ask me, not on super competitive lvl of play, probably, but still.

I would rather remove TA, relpace shitty stormtroopers with good elite call-in inf, which ost is really needed and then place regular tiger to this doctrine or even command PIV. Because TA provide nothing more but frustration.

But personannly I would really like to see sturmtroopers not to suck balls and then TA could be replaced with something like camo for inf, because I would really like to play with this ability more, but commanders with camo are quite out-of-meta and outshined by almost everything.

I made a thread about that some months ago.
I haven´t used the Ace since.
You are better off going for a regular Tiger most of the time.

Your threads are not viable.
Did you expected this unit to win game for you?

Hahaha

Tiger Ace purpose is to save you when you lost other armor in lategame and desperately need strong armor presense

+1

I like this idea. The Tiger Ace is the only unit in the game that doesn´t level up*. And that is quite annoying. It takes out an element of the game. After all Relic didn´t want features that intervene with unit leveling. So a vet 3 Tiger right from the get go seems odd. It could be a regular tiger with the ability to earn additional vet levels.

* (except Opel Blitz, Sturmoffizier and Sdkfz 250. )

Indeed, would require some numbers to be done, you know, making the effort of getting a vet5 tiger I worth undertaking and all that without breaking the game XD.

Also doesnt seem complicated from a coding point if view I'd say.

I don't really know why is it called "ace". Because of whiners it was nerfed into the ground and its value dropped hard. I don't see any reason for income penalties as long as it's left in the current state.... The doctrine itself is not bad though, it has some useful abilities but that's about all. Remember that bulletin? I would say that "He IS called ACE for nothing" indeed.

Yeah, right! Can you pass the joint please?

To all the fellow members who say that TA is bad or not viable:

Who do you play against? I mean, come on guys.
If you play against an equal skilled player and you are slightly winning, then he pulls the Ace out and the advantage is automatically on his side (Especially if you play as USF).
The Ace has so much AI and AT power. The ROF is insane, or am i wrong here? I don't think so.
And don't forget the rest of the abilities of this commander.

P.S. If you thing and say that the Ace is not good, why i keep seeing him in every "high ranked" players Loadout? I guess they are fooling them selfs (NOT).

It still gets out of harm way too reliably. Seen that replay on org where the tiger ace should have died like 20 times but got away time and time again boucing every freakin shot from the front lol

Try IS2.

The Ace is nothing special. Sure it cost no fuel but it also costs you the rest of the games resources if you keep it alive. 9/10 times I've seen it in 2v2's they die in the first 3-5 minutes they're out. 2 Comets can take on a TA with ease. They're a little more of a shock in 1v1's but I haven't enjoyed COH2 1v1's since WFA came out.

You did enjoy the vanilla factions tho?

Cons spam/Maxim Spam into call ins

MG42 that didn't suppress, sniper dies when looking at it, Pzgren being trash, etc etc.

P.S. If you thing and say that the Ace is not good, why i keep seeing him in every "high ranked" players Loadout? I guess they are fooling them selfs (NOT).

I have to agree.

I have seen a substantial rise in the use of Elite troops in recent months by players ranked 200 - 500.

But i also think some of that has to do with people abusing stun grenade bug.

I tested myself a Tiger Ace and a normal Tiger vet 3.Not a single difference in combat.Both do 160 damage,have the exact range,the other at least have an mg42 and the other hurt your manpower income and fuel income.Why would you go for Tiger Ace?I suggest make Tiger ace 720 MP and 280 fuel,remove mp and fuel penalties and increase it's damage to 240.ATM there is no point to take the single doctrine with Tiger Ace beside normal tiger that at vet 3 it's in combat exactly as Tiger Ace

But sir what is the point of a regular Tiger then?

Currently the TA is a vet 3 Tiger with zero fuel cost, yes it reduces your MP + fuel income (and it should for such a potentially game changing unit). You are suppose to have a small army of pios for reps prior to calling in the TA supported by something like 2xpaks (Pios with mines) and 2xMGs, thats really it. The TA will do the anti inf + AT with MG and pak support with pios to keep her active.

Adding the buffs you mentioned literally makes the regular Tiger totally redundant. Why go for a Vet0 Tiger for 230(ish?) fuel when you can get the whopper that is the TA for 280 fuel?

Leave the TA as is, it has been balanced for quite some time, simply build a working start around that doc that you can lift and shift for each game and you are golden. Don't try and fix what isnt broken! :-)

But sir what is the point of a regular Tiger then?

Currently the TA is a vet 3 Tiger with zero fuel cost, yes it reduces your MP + fuel income (and it should for such a potentially game changing unit). You are suppose to have a small army of pios for reps prior to calling in the TA supported by something like 2xpaks (Pios with mines) and 2xMGs, thats really it. The TA will do the anti inf + AT with MG and pak support with pios to keep her active.

Adding the buffs you mentioned literally makes the regular Tiger totally redundant. Why go for a Vet0 Tiger for 230(ish?) fuel when you can get the whopper that is the TA for 280 fuel?

Leave the TA as is, it has been balanced for quite some time, simply build a working start around that doc that you can lift and shift for each game and you are golden. Don't try and fix what isnt broken! :-)

Make him even 330 fuel or 800/1000 MP but it's stupid to have those manpower penalties and fuel penalties.I told you,the longer the game it get's the longer you will be in disadvantage.And for that price make him deal 240 damage.It's exactly as a normal vet3 tiger.In 5 minutes with a normal Tiger you will get vet 2 and another panther but with tiger ace in 5 minutes at least you can reinforce your army not to say to build another unit

Make him even 330 fuel or 800/1000 MP but it's stupid to have those manpower penalties and fuel penalties.I told you,the longer the game it get's the longer you will be in disadvantage.And for that price make him deal 240 damage.It's exactly as a normal vet3 tiger.In 5 minutes with a normal Tiger you will get vet 2 and another panther but with tiger ace in 5 minutes at least you can reinforce your army not to say to build another unit

Well sir if you can get a vanilla Tiger to vet2 in 5mins that is one hell of an achievement! You must be tearing allied Armour apart!

Look you clearly won't be changing your mind regarding the TA, it is highly unlikely that there will be any changes to it in the future as it is about as perfectly balanced as it can be now.

Once again I suggest you form a strategy around the current TA that works for you, many players use this unit, it is totally 100% viable even with its resource penalties. Im not sure what game modes you play but if its 2v2 id be happy to PM you how I use it!

Well sir if you can get a vanilla Tiger to vet2 in 5mins that is one hell of an achievement! You must be tearing allied Armour apart!

Look you clearly won't be changing your mind regarding the TA, it is highly unlikely that there will be any changes to it in the future as it is about as perfectly balanced as it can be now.

Once again I suggest you form a strategy around the current TA that works for you, many players use this unit, it is totally 100% viable even with its resource penalties. Im not sure what game modes you play but if its 2v2 id be happy to PM you how I use it!

I agree. T/A is fine if used correctly.

The problem is, it is a bit of a gimmick and only viable in certain situations.

What needs to change is the number of commanders available in game, other wise Elite troops just takes up a commander slot when it is can only be used 20% of the time.

Make him even 330 fuel or 800/1000 MP but it's stupid to have those manpower penalties and fuel penalties.I told you,the longer the game it get's the longer you will be in disadvantage.And for that price make him deal 240 damage.It's exactly as a normal vet3 tiger.In 5 minutes with a normal Tiger you will get vet 2 and another panther but with tiger ace in 5 minutes at least you can reinforce your army not to say to build another unit

I don't understand why you want to change the design of this doctrine if your wish is to get from it something similar to the 2/3 doctrines providing normal tigers. Put those doctrines in your loadout and leave the Ace where it sits.

I'm not why people insists that Tiger Ace has to be the unit that single handily destroy the whole opposing team without a sweat.

Just how large are the chances for 300 armour to bounce a gazillion what, 150-200 pen shots? Marginal, its freak RNG par excellence and quite meaningless.

Let's have a look!

The Tiger Ace deflected seven (by my count) shots from guns with penetration 200/190/180. Since both guns were quite close, I'll use 200 penetration. This gives a chance to penetrate of 0.66.

By binomial probability:

Probability of bouncing 7/7 shots: (7!/7!(7-7)!)*(0.66)^0*(0.33)^7 = 0.33^7 = 0.000426, which is roughly one in 2500. Clearly, an extremely rare occurrence.

While we're here, what are the average number of shots to kill late-game generalists?

For the Tiger Ace:

1280 health gives eight penetrating shots to kill and the penetration chance of a point-blank AT gun is 0.66. Dividing the number of shots to kill by the chance of penetration gives ~12.12, which corresponds to an expected effective health against AT guns of 1939.39 (for comparison, the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters has only 1920 health). The standard Tiger is expected to require ~9.85 shots to kill with an expected effective health against AT guns of ~1575.76.

We can do the same comparison for the 800 health, 290 armour Comet and Pershing:

200/290 gives a chance to penetrate of ~0.6897. This gives an effective health of 1160 against AT guns and are expected to require 7.25 shots to kill.

Again, for the 1040 health, 375 armour IS-2:

200/375 gives a chance to penetrate of ~0.5333. This gives an effective health of 1950 against AT guns and is expected to require 12.1875 shots to kill.

Finally, for the 1280 health, 375 armour King Tiger:

200/375 gives a chance to penetrate of ~0.5333. This gives an effective health of 2400 against AT guns and is expected to require 15 shots to kill.

Hahaha

Look at the headline before you write rekt. It wasn´t directed at me.