Ostheer lategame needs a buff

Jump back to quoted post23 May 2016, 23:54 PMPanzerGeneralForever

Get a 222 with spotting scopes, place him in a centralized spot off the frontline and see what the enemy is doing. Give sight for your indirect fire, TDs, infantry, ATGs, and HMGs and you already have a huge advantage over your enemy. Best 4v4 cmdr for ostheer IS jaeger armor.

Jump back to quoted post24 May 2016, 22:10 PMMirdarion

Wow, it has a cheaper flamethrower upgrade. I'm impressed! There's only a slight problem: Even with the flamer it is still total rubbish, because it dies to everything farting at it. How is it supposed to take out garrisons, if the unit inside the garrison can bring it down to less than half health before they are even slightly in danger from the flames? Heck, even the Universal Carrier (a unit that doesn't need much convincing to be shown as severely lacking) has more armour...

Jump back to quoted post25 May 2016, 22:12 PMThunderhun

PS: At 10k we shall rename to katitof2.org

• Repairing: With the allied AT/TD receiving mega buffs, pioneers need to have a %50 faster repair rate minimum.
  
  
• Grenadiers: High reinforce cost, high veterancy requirements.
  
  
• Panzer IV: Rarely penetrates vehicles which can penetrate it quite often, overpriced
  
  
• Ostwind: Bad rate of fire, completely random splash damage, sub par veterancy bouses
  
  
• Panther: Too expensive for doing the only thing it is good at, destroying some mediums. With the mega buffs to allied TD/AT, this unit is going to be absolutely useless. It isn't worth any more than 400/150, unless it's damage increased or reload time significantly reduced.
  
  
• Tiger: Again suffering from a high reload time while dealing average damage.
  
  
• Elefant: Easily swarmed by the superior yet inexpensive allied mediums and out classed by the FireFly and Jackson blobs.
  
  
• leFH: Throwing poop shells
  
  
• Panzerwerfer: It does not perform it's supposed role thanks to its short range and short barrage duration; being a reliable late game arty capable of at least partially wiping 6-man support crews, or immortal vet3 exterminators.
  
  
  
• SdKfz251 Ost needs this HT to overcome their lack of mobility and on field presence. IT is waaaay toooo expensive for its durability and necessity.
  

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 11:33 AMPencilBatRation

OST has multiple problems at the moment:

• Repairing: With the allied AT/TD receiving mega buffs, pioneers need to have a %50 faster repair rate minimum.
  
  
• Grenadiers: High reinforce cost, high veterancy requirements.
  
  
• Panzer IV: Rarely penetrates vehicles which can penetrate it quite often, overpriced
  
  
• Ostwind: Bad rate of fire, completely random splash damage, sub par veterancy bouses
  
  
• Panther: Too expensive for doing the only thing it is good at, destroying some mediums. With the mega buffs to allied TD/AT, this unit is going to be absolutely useless. It isn't worth any more than 400/150, unless it's damage increased or reload time significantly reduced.
  
  
• Tiger: Again suffering from a high reload time while dealing average damage.
  
  
• Elefant: Easily swarmed by the superior yet inexpensive allied mediums and out classed by the FireFly and Jackson blobs.
  
  
• leFH: Throwing poop shells
  
  
• Panzerwerfer: It does not perform it's supposed role thanks to its short range and short barrage duration; being a reliable late game arty capable of at least partially wiping 6-man support crews, or immortal vet3 exterminators.
  
  
  
• SdKfz251 Ost needs this HT to overcome their lack of mobility and on field presence. IT is waaaay toooo expensive for its durability and necessity.
  

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 11:47 AMSmaug

first off.. yes i agree pios need a major repair speed buff
grens are fine tho (micro is key)
so is the p4 (its vet is awesome). repair upgrades on pios will help it remain on front longer
ostwind is also okish (similar to centaur)
panther is fine imo (320 armor, 50 range, non doc, awesome vet)
Tiger could use armor buff from vet2
elefant is perfect for what it does (getting swarmed is l2p issue)
lefh is great for its price (no feul cost)
pwerfer could use a range buff and 1.1x damage increase vs emplacements

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 11:49 AMPencilBatRation

Will try to read it and reply to this mumbo jumbo if you use proper formatting and add something more meaningful than just one word "comebacks"

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 12:27 PMSmaug

what didnt you understand?

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 11:33 AMPencilBatRation

OST has multiple problems at the moment:

• Repairing: With the allied AT/TD receiving mega buffs, pioneers need to have a %50 faster repair rate minimum.
  
  
• Grenadiers: High reinforce cost, high veterancy requirements.
  
  
• Panzer IV: Rarely penetrates vehicles which can penetrate it quite often, overpriced
  
  
• Ostwind: Bad rate of fire, completely random splash damage, sub par veterancy bouses
  
  
• Panther: Too expensive for doing the only thing it is good at, destroying some mediums. With the mega buffs to allied TD/AT, this unit is going to be absolutely useless. It isn't worth any more than 400/150, unless it's damage increased or reload time significantly reduced.
  
  
• Tiger: Again suffering from a high reload time while dealing average damage.
  
  
• Elefant: Easily swarmed by the superior yet inexpensive allied mediums and out classed by the FireFly and Jackson blobs.
  
  
• leFH: Throwing poop shells
  
  
• Panzerwerfer: It does not perform it's supposed role thanks to its short range and short barrage duration; being a reliable late game arty capable of at least partially wiping 6-man support crews, or immortal vet3 exterminators.
  
  
  
• SdKfz251 Ost needs this HT to overcome their lack of mobility and on field presence. IT is waaaay toooo expensive for its durability and necessity.
  

• Repairing: I would like to see their repair speed go up with minesweeper upgrade and same treatment for soviet.
  
  
• Grenadiers: Long range grenade, good LMG upgrade, snare... just okay
  
  
• Panzer IV: Yes it rarely penetrates IS-2 or what do you mean? It has better combination of armor and penetration than most other medium non-doctrinal tanks. No, it is not a bs overperforming unit, but it is just right.
  
  
• Ostwind: Too much RNG, needs do dish out more reliable damage.
  
  
• Panther: Really? Still one of the best tanks in this game, lets wait for the "mega" buffs to allied TDs, I bet Panther will remain strong.
  
  
• Tiger: Don't think its damage is a problem. Less armor and way less mobility than a Panther means it can be killed more easily inspite of higher health pool. Thats more of a problem.
  
  
• Elefant: In 1vs1 the Elefant has no gameplay value, but in 3v3 and 4vs4 it is borderline op, at least on some maps and especially in AT. I always play it with Jaeger armor with a vetted and scoped 222 next to it. It is such a strong combo, that I don't know what you are doing wrong.
  
  
• leFH: Not the shells are the problem, insta-death by offmaps is a much bigger problem. Same goes for soviet howitzer.
  
  
• Panzerwerfer: What is its supposed role? It is fine at weakening defensive lines with weapon teams, infantry and light vehicles. Panzerwerfer is okay. It is vice versa, there are still other rocket artillery pieces that are too strong.
  
  
• SdKfz251 I have to admit having no opinion or idea on this one.

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 14:20 PMAerohank

Ostheer is in a strange spot. Ostheer lategame is fine, but their midgame is just weaksauce. All allied factions can choose between getting side tech upgrades or rushing out higher tech units. Ostheer is forced into an all-inclusive linear tech. Fausts, grenades, LMGs and panzerschreks are all 'unlocked' through standard teching. They also don't really have a good light vehicle tier like Soviets/USF but instead have a 'medium+' tank tier. What ends up happening is that Ost simply loses too much map control due to enemy light vehicles. It delays T3 a lot and it makes going for T4 nothing more than a pipe-dream. The 222 buff helped a bit but 222s are still poor vehicles that aren't really threatening at all thanks to their broken coax machine gun that does not fire half the time. Even if you do manage to kill the enemy light vehicle, your 222s (you pretty much always need two) can't really do anything else and will just die sooner or later (they only remain useful against Brits because of their lack of snares). They really need to fix that unit.

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 14:41 PMSmaug

1 idea can be to actually increase the price of the 222 drastically like 350 mp 60 feul and in return its performance goes up to smiliar level of aec. or perhaps it can shoot shells like the flakht of okw. This price increase delays teching to higher tiers while giving the 222 a good spot. The price has to be adjusted relative to aec and t70, by which time they hit the feild.

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 14:57 PMAerohank

I'm not sure how to fix it.

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 15:34 PMAustralian Magic

Panzer III in T2.

Tho 222 is really cost-efficient.

2 of them can stop Stuart, AEC or T70 without problems if used right.

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 16:38 PMAerohank

Panzer 3 in T2 brings in the mentioned imbalance with regards to allied side-tech. Getting up T2 to rush a Panzer 3 would make probably make it cheaper than a T70 rush for Soviets AND give you access to fausts/nades/LMGs/shreks

222 are indeed decent against enemy light tanks, but as I mentioned, they become almost useless after that. Which is a problem because it creates a situation where, even if you completely outmicro your opponent, you would still only really have traded resources. Maybe the unit would be fine if they fixed the bloody coax machine gun.

Jump back to quoted post26 May 2016, 15:34 PMButcher

Something needs to be done about the Panther. It is not worth it in about any realistic scenario in the game. There are no swarms of Allied heavy tanks with high armor. Thus the penetration (while great on paper) is not needed. To compensate this high penetration the Panther has a slow reload. Thus you end up with the slow reload yet none of the practical benefits of the Panthers gun.

It simply fulfills an unneeded role. At least give it some better AI capabilities or a higher rate of fire so it is worth building.