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[May Patch] Remove the self spotting ability from the SU85

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Myself
16 May 2016, 09:59 AM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2016, 09:32 AMKatitof

Hardly from all buildings, but mortar and sniper flares are indeed nothing to be ignored.

T1 sniper/flares
T2 Mortar flares, ATG "tracking"
T3 Su-76 "tracking" T70 "recon mode"
T4 Su-85 "tracking" "focused sight"
so every tech building has at least one.

add "trip wire flares" to infantry from T0 if you want and every single SU building has a recon ability...

jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2016, 09:32 AMKatitof

And please, have you even seen how much tracking adds?
It was ninja slaughter nerfed long time ago without relics word on it, sight was cut by 70% and cost was almost doubled.

Yes I have, have you?
If you want to refer to ninja changes pls be more specific, state when and what was those changes.


Using "tracking" a Soviet unit has the about the same sight radius as 222. Using both "focused sight" and "tracking" the SU-85 can spot forward about (a bit more actually) as much as 222 using spotting scopes...

PLS check your facts, before posting, so we can avoid unnecessary posts like these...
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elchino7
16 May 2016, 21:11 PM
#42
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https://www.coh2.org/topic/21777/zis-3-tracking-ability-overnerfed

Basically, it gave practically the same vision as using focused sight (±75 maybe a bit less). Nowadays it's 49 (35 * 1.4). If we make it simple, it would probably be a 2.0 multiplier.

So he is not so far from the actual values, as the cost was increased almost to double as well. (20 > 35)

While we might think it was necessary on the Su85, it doesn't correlate with the power level of TWP as a vet1 ability. At that point, no one complain about it and we were still struggling with bugged TWP (OP when it worked).

Tracking should be detecting VEHICLES, not infantry beyond LOS. AND it should not be the SU85 vet1 ability.

Just for the lulz, a rough list of LoS.


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Gumboot
16 May 2016, 22:40 PM
#43
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Posts: 199

Id rather see the InfraHT removed from the game more so then the SU85 self spot.
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Myself
17 May 2016, 07:40 AM
#44
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Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2016, 21:11 PMelchino7
...
Tracking should be detecting VEHICLES, not infantry beyond LOS. AND it should not be the SU85 vet1 ability.
...


Iirc "tracking" on vehicles did not reveal infantry in the mini map before that patch. The zis "tracking" would not reveal infantry either until you merged conscripts to the zis. Once you merged conscripts tracking would reveal infantry on the mini map.

I suspect that relic either was unable to fix the bug or decided to give this bonus anyway so they changed the sight bonus and cost.

"Tracking" is about "ok" as an ability, the combo of "focused sight" and "tracking" is problematic on the SU-85, 105 sight range on a TD with range 60 is simply way too much. A TD should not become better than stock recon vehicles...(222 sight should also be capped).
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siuking666
17 May 2016, 08:08 AM
#45
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Posts: 707

The stupidest part is how SU85 had always had self-spotting, which sees further than it could shoot;

and when they remove the spot from ISU, SU85 can still spot for it.
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Looney
17 May 2016, 11:56 AM
#46
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Then remove self spotting for the Puma, JP and command Panther as well OP.












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elchino7
17 May 2016, 18:06 PM
#47
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jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2016, 07:40 AMMyself
Iirc "tracking" on vehicles did not reveal infantry in the mini map before that patch. The zis "tracking" would not reveal infantry either until you merged conscripts to the zis. Once you merged conscripts tracking would reveal infantry on the mini map.


Since i don't have such a good memory, i won't be able to tell if it did or didn't work at that time. But the description of the ability hasn't change at it's been "detect infantry on minimap" since release.

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2016, 07:40 AMMyself

"Tracking" is about "ok" as an ability, the combo of "focused sight" and "tracking" is problematic on the SU-85, 105 sight range on a TD with range 60 is simply way too much. A TD should not become better than stock recon vehicles...(222 sight should also be capped).


Problem is stacking effects. Focused sight on it's own is fine as you get a hefty drawback on mobility. Same with tracking which is something average on both the Su76 and Zis/45mm at gun in comparison to Twp like abilities.
What is not fine, is the homogeneous of all EFA vet1 abilities. This is why all OH tanks/pak have either blitz or twp (heck even Brummbar had it prior to bunker busting) and all SU tank/pak have capture point/tracking.

Remove tracking from vet1 and replace it with something else. On the past i've suggest a twist on the TWP and ambush camouflage ability. Conceal the tank, make it immobile and make the shot have either increased damage/some temporal crit.

jump backJump back to quoted post16 May 2016, 22:40 PMGumboot
Id rather see the InfraHT removed from the game more so then the SU85 self spot.

I'll rather have they fix it, specially if OKW is gonna get reliable stock suppression. (This is real maphack).
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Mr.Smith
17 May 2016, 18:16 PM
#48
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Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post17 May 2016, 18:06 PMelchino7

I'll rather have they fix it, specially if OKW is gonna get reliable stock suppression. (This is real maphack).


This exact thing has been circling in my head for a while now. Swap Infrared HT with doctrinal MG42 for Fortifications/Luftwaffe. Problem solved. Both doctrines allowed MG34 (doc) + IR HT anyway (non-doc). Now it will actually give people a reason to still pick these doctrines.

Only problem is that you now get early access to both Stuka & IR HT. Oh well...
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Trubbbel
26 May 2016, 12:17 PM
#49
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Posts: 721

Selfspotting should return to the vehicles that previously lost it, for example the Elephant. It's slow as it is and selfspotting will make it even more immobile. It was perfectly fine as it was. Now one has to sacrifice models and losing field presence by running troops into hmgs or spend lots of ammo to be able to fire a very expensive tank that can hardly move. To me that change was blatantly obviously the wrong move the second I saw the patch notes.
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