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Luchs vs T70 vs 222

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The amazing Chandler
12 May 2016, 12:31 PM
#1
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Posts: 1355

Can please someone who knows his stuff :D about this game (no Fanboys please, i know who you are :nahnah:)explain to me why the 222 has the same HP as the T70? And why has the Luchs more HP then this two?
The self repair ability from T70 is not a valid argument in my eyes because its very pricy (but maybe i am wrong about this). Also the Luchs is as deadly as the T70 and you can have it after only building one tier. The T70 requires T1 or T2 and T3.

What would be fair imo is to give T70 the same HP as the Luchs (400) and the 222 should cost 5 or so more fuel and could stay as it is. Or give it also the same HP (400) and raise the Fuel.
Or give the Luchs the same HP as the T70.

This is not a nerf thread for Axis or so. I play mostly Allies but also Axis.
It just does not makes sense imo that 2 of 3 light tanks (and 1 isn't even a tank) have less HP then the other.

As i said before, this is not a NERF Thread. i just want the game to be balanced.
Maybe i am way of with my above analysis.

Thank you in advance for the objective responses.
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Australian Magic
12 May 2016, 12:40 PM
#2
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It's fine.
T70 is superior AI when steady.
Plus it will get indirect buff by removing schrecks from Volks.
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The amazing Chandler
12 May 2016, 12:51 PM
#3
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 12:40 PMAustralian Magic
It's fine.
T70 is superior AI when steady.
Plus it will get indirect buff by removing schrecks from Volks.


In my experience the Luchs can wipe squads as fast as the T70 and on the move. And 6 man squads also.
And about the HP difference, with the Luchs you are allowed to make a wrong move and have more time to save it, not with the T70.
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Mr.Smith
12 May 2016, 12:52 PM
#4
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 12:40 PMAustralian Magic
It's fine.
T70 is superior AI when steady.
Plus it will get indirect buff by removing schrecks from Volks.


Actually, T70 doesn't care at all if it's moving or not (it's scatter penalty that matters for tank cannons, not moving accuracy penalty). Thus, chase away and hug the retreating squads (so that if you hit a Teller, they are going down with you).

(The only other tank I know that shares the same qualities as the T70 is the Easy8).
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions

Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
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ElSlayer
12 May 2016, 12:53 PM
#5
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Luchs was given 400HP before removal of OKW fuel penalty. They had fast teching and could get out their first vehicle quite fast, but after that they couldn't get other vehicles anytime soon.

Whole faction design was promoting unit preservation - low income, high cost, 5 levels of vet. Quality over quantity.

So, I think that balance team decided that their vehicles (including Luchs) should have higher durability.

After introducing WFA and then rebalancing teching (one of the goals was increasing length of time window, when light vehicles are viable) Wehrmacht needed something better than armored car before they can roll out their first medium tank. So they decided to "upgrade" 222 to some sort of light tank.

I think that most players have already came to conclusion that 222 is too cost effective.

I should point out that T70 defeats both Luchs and 222 on 1v1 basis, while being excelent against infantry and in scouting (vet2 + recon mode). So it is not that bad.
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newvan
12 May 2016, 12:53 PM
#6
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Without self repair I would say it's unbalanced, but with it it's still survives 2 shots, there are 2 useful abilities, good gun for lv, it's in a good spot in my opinion.












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ElSlayer
12 May 2016, 12:57 PM
#7
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By the way, does anybody knows if T-70 still doesn't remove criticals with self-repair?
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The amazing Chandler
12 May 2016, 13:00 PM
#8
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That's what i thought a few moments ago, T70 has more utility. I would trade the self repair any day for 400 HP thou :D
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The amazing Chandler
12 May 2016, 13:01 PM
#9
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 12:53 PMnewvan
Without self repair I would say it's unbalanced, but with it it's still survives 2 shots, there are 2 useful abilities, good gun for lv, it's in a good spot in my opinion.


I think its 50-50 like the repair in general. Sometimes the critical gets repaired before the fuel HP, sometimes not. I am not 100% sure thou.
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EtherealDragon
12 May 2016, 13:06 PM
#10
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 13:00 PMThe amazing Chandler
That's what i thought a few moments ago, T70 has more utility. I would trade the self repair any day for 400 HP tho :D


One trick I see a lot of higher tier players use is if they think they can't avoid the 2nd PAK shot they'll pop self repair instantly which allows you to survive a 2nd hit (since the repair puts you over the minimum HP needed). Its not quite like having 400 HP but in terms of AT Gun hits it might as well be.
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Hux
12 May 2016, 13:08 PM
#11
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The 222 is horrible. It's bigger than all the light tanks and is too cost effective. Turn it back into a light scout car with great mobility and sight and get the Hotchkiss into a few doctrines that have naff abilities.

Scout car my ass...
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The amazing Chandler
12 May 2016, 13:10 PM
#12
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Posts: 1355

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 13:06 PMEtherealDragon


One trick I see a lot of higher tier players use is if they think they can't avoid the 2nd PAK shot they'll pop self repair instantly which allows you to survive a 2nd hit (since the repair puts you over the minimum HP needed). Its not quite like having 400 HP but in terms of AT Gun hits it might as well be.


Yeah, i know that. I would rather have the 60 munitions for something else ;)

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 13:08 PMHux
Scout car my ass...

:rofl:
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Stug life
12 May 2016, 13:19 PM
#13
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 13:08 PMHux
The 222 is horrible. It's bigger than all the light tanks and is too cost effective. Turn it back into a light scout car with great mobility and sight and get the Hotchkiss into a few doctrines that have naff abilities.

Scout car my ass...
give p 3 to balance it out
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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Gdot
12 May 2016, 13:20 PM
#14
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t70 > luchs > 222

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CartoonVillain
12 May 2016, 13:43 PM
#15
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 13:08 PMHux
The 222 is horrible. It's bigger than all the light tanks and is too cost effective. Turn it back into a light scout car with great mobility and sight and get the Hotchkiss into a few doctrines that have naff abilities.

Scout car my ass...


So is it horrible or too good?
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Katitof
12 May 2016, 13:45 PM
#16
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 13:43 PMCartoonVillain


So is it horrible or too good?

Considering the fact that 2 of them, for the 30 fuel can effortlessly counter T3 units which cost 60-70 fuel?

Should be pretty self explanatory.

Its definitely underpriced for the hp it got.

Greyhound costs 40 fu, has worse gun and less hp.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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RealName
12 May 2016, 14:14 PM
#17
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Posts: 276

jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 13:08 PMHux
The 222 is horrible. It's bigger than all the light tanks and is too cost effective. Turn it back into a light scout car with great mobility and sight and get the Hotchkiss Pz. III into a few doctrines that have naff abilities.

Scout car my ass...
I am not responsible for anything I say.
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Hux
12 May 2016, 14:40 PM
#18
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Posts: 505

Meh, I could get on board with a Pz III. I just though the Hotchkiss might be able to have some T3-tied Stuka muni upgrade to give Oh some light artillery for the mid to late game.

Whichever it is, I wouldn't mind as long as it's not that damn 'scout car'.

Disclaimer: some people may think I don't like the 221/222; on the contrary. I love it. It just pains me to see it being 30 metres long, 6 metres high and having the handling of a shopping trolley. If it was the way it is supposed to be (read: a scout car) I would be very happy.
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aaa
12 May 2016, 14:54 PM
#19
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 May 2016, 13:20 PMGdot
t70 > luchs > 222



t 70 is only slightly better than luchs that doesnt justify 80f difference. You can get 2 luchs before 1 t70 even if first one do nothing to impede oponents economy.
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FalseAlarm
12 May 2016, 16:03 PM
#20
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The AEC, Luchs and stuart have too much health. And the T70 getting twoshotted by AT is wrong.


You get the idea.
usfusfostheerostheer
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